Export of Rinkhals

[RJG]

I often see rinkhals on overseas snake site's. All these snakes are WC snakes from South Africa that where sent there relatively recently. Another thing is that all the rinkhals owners say they have kokstad locality animals. So literally all the rinkhals I've seen or read about on these forums are from kokstad. Logic says to me that all these snakes where therefore (most likely) sent by one person. This whole thing upsets me because in my mind I see 100s of our indigenous jewels being caught out of the wild to be sold overseas buyers just for a quick buck. Rather than go on living secretly disliking someone I dont even know I thought I'd inquire on not just the legality but also the morality. Some of the snakes died but many have done well so not all is bad. I do realise that wc snakes have to be acquired in order to produce cb but morally speaking should we not breed them here in SA and then export cb snakes. That way we are selling better animals and have less impact on the wild population. For argument sake if every female gives birth to 10 babies then for every 10 snakes you would of taken out the wild your only taking 2 (mom and dad). This is better for both the snake population and the people receiving the snakes as they are already first generation.

So can anyone tell me more about what happened here.
Id also like to here other opinions.

[RJG]

Another reason it angers me is that we always give the germans or whoever else everything to establish like all our caudalis and cornuta etc and a few other species. We dont do our own herps justice. I dont know if its just because we are to lazy or money hungry. Its sad. Here is link for example. http://lh6.ggpht.com/_A4KxL3YnH-U/TGxhd ... 0001_n.jpg . If only we (someone or a few people in our herp community )bred this characteristic and created a green bloodline we would be seeing these animals in SA and we could then sell overseas. Sorry for venting.

[Jamster]

We had 27 rhinkals neonates from one female at our park. These were sold to a well known member on the forum who apparently exported them for profit. I also know that kokstad rhinkals were floating around for quite a while. I know however that these canary coloured rhinkals( well the ones i saw two or so years ago) were cb neonates.

[Bushviper]

The green bloodline is well established in South Africa.

Until the laws change the selling of indigenous reptiles overseas will take place. Some leave our shores legally and others not so much.

For a species as common and widespread as Rinkhals I would not be worried. In Gauteng the reason we have almost zero interest in indigenous species is because it costs R100 a year to keep them and it is technically not possible to sell them. The "inspections" and hassles associated with having snakes on permit are not an incentive to utilize our natural resources.

[Unforgiven]

That green line actually looks quite pretty! Arno, what is the going rate for them at the moment?

Tipan, how do you know all the snakes are wc? As Jamster mentioned their are a few guys who are exporting CB animals out. I'm not saying they aren't WC, but rather that I doubt every animal sent overseas is poached. Also from the sounds of things with a few discussions I have seen, the overseas guys just seem to have better luck at keeping our species than we do. With their access to such high end equipment I can't really blame them. That said there are a lot of species from SA that a lot of people have trouble with keeping alive, even when it comes to CB specimens.

By the sounds of things, KZN (AKA Paochers paradise) is the only real place where there is a real interest in indigenous species, but it is so much easier to catch an animal and sell it than it is to spend the time raising and conditioning it to breed it later.

I really don't have a lot of information on the subject to make a proper answer, but I would go so far as to say, the herp culture and breeding has really improved in South Africa, I would however say that we still have a long way to go. Let's not get started on legislation and things though

[Amphibian]

I wouldnt go hunting for the "one peson" sending out Kokstads Rinkhals just yet. The fact that European keepers are calling all their banded Rinkhals Kokstad locality means very little really.
Animals sold as a specific locality as away to suggest they are a better purchase happens, V.ammodytes being sold as Lake Scutari locality is a common example - most are not.

[RJG]

Thanks for the replies.
Unforgiven-If you read on the sites most pictures have a discription saying that they are WC. If not they are F1 bred by the person posting.
BV- Ive seen and even relocated a few rhinkals with green spots esspecialy on the hood but have never even heard of one like the one in the link I posted. Where are they and is it line bred?

[Fooble]

By the sounds of things, KZN (AKA Paochers paradise) is the only real place where there is a real interest in indigenous species, but it is so much easier to catch an animal and sell it than it is to spend the time raising and conditioning it to breed it later.

That's a pretty short sighted comment. One can't simply assume all reptile keepers in the country are associated with that.

Live in KZN < Have Zero Morals. Yeah right.

[Unforgiven]

By the sounds of things, KZN (AKA Paochers paradise) is the only real place where there is a real interest in indigenous species, but it is so much easier to catch an animal and sell it than it is to spend the time raising and conditioning it to breed it later.

That's a pretty short sighted comment. One can't simply assume all reptile keepers in the country are associated with that.

Live in KZN < Have Zero Morals. Yeah right.

I can see how my reply might have had that effect, but I assure you that was not it's intention. A lot of the big and very respected breeders come from KZN and becuase of the lack of a permit system it makes breeding a lot easier and less of a pain in the butt than say a province like Western Cape where everything is on permit, so much is banned and you have to pay for your permits. Because of this it's very easy to understand why more people in Kzn are more interested in indigenous species. My comment on the catching of species rather than breeding them was related directly to poaching and the exporting of species. And in Kzn it really is so much easier to poach - legally

I don't know how much poaching actually still goes on and how much of the stuff stays inside SA. I do know that it is still going on though. I am sorry if you took offence through my comment as that was not intended.

[Bushviper]

Yeah that is rather a sweeping statement but it is also close to the truth. 90 percent of the reptiles listed on TOPS are there because they do not require a permit in KZN and are exported from there by the hundreds every year. This is the only way the government can crack down on the people who poach these reptiles in large numbers.

It also happens that the climate is conducive to breeding many of the pet trade snakes so if they are bred in such numbers then surely the local snakes are also bred in large numbers. File snakes, shield nose snakes coral snakes and various house snakes are bred by the hundreds in KZN.

When we start talking about the small adders and girdled lizards then the "breedings" have to be taken with a pinch of salt.

[Allen G. Liebenberg]

Hi all.I know this story is a bit tired but there is definitely a tendency here to not put much effort into caring for indigenous reptiles.They are too easily sourced.
If you put enough energy into their care they can be bred ok and then more would be available locally.I believe the permit system must be made more user friendly and accessible for things to work really well.
At the moment permits take too long to get-the cost can not be the issue.Other costs of looking after reps are much higher.
In our minds we should realize that local species are really special and need to be cared for long term to get the value they deserve!

[Wallas]

Hi all.I know this story is a bit tired but there is definitely a tendency here to not put much effort into caring for indigenous reptiles.They are too easily sourced.
If you put enough energy into their care they can be bred ok and then more would be available locally.I believe the permit system must be made more user friendly and accessible for things to work really well.
At the moment permits take too long to get-the cost can not be the issue.Other costs of looking after reps are much higher.
In our minds we should realize that local species are really special and need to be cared for long term to get the value they deserve!

That's the truth, wish more people will realize how special our retiles are and focus more on them than exotics.

[DanielMargot]

Hey guys,

I have actually been thinking about trying to find a good supplier of cb South African snakes. I am a former Durbanite living in Ontario and would love to keep the amazing species that captivated me during my teenage years. If anyone would like to actually talk seriously about this please do contact me!

[Robain]

Anyone got a photo of what the green phase looks like all grown up?
Rinkals change a lot as they get older.
I have just got home from 2 rinkals call outs (South of JHB) they are super common and really one of my favourite snakes.