Dwarf Adders

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Dwarf Adders

Postby JeffG » Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:49 pm

Hey guys, I have been interested in adders for years especially the smaller ones, they are so beautiful and so distinctive, so i thought we could have a topic to honour them with pictures, stories, breeding efforts and general discution on these beautiful little gems that we are so lucky to have.
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Re: Dwarf Adders

Postby armata » Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:10 pm

If you search you will find quite a bit already covered including photowise.

My work on Bitis armata/rubida etc.
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Re: Dwarf Adders

Postby swazi » Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:41 am

Please contact me if you are thinking of getting dwarf adders. There is a VERY dodgy dealer who sold me a so called captive bread pair, turned out they were smuggled (how he got permits still baffles me) as were a whole lot of other snakes he supplied. He is dishonest and up to no good, many of his snakes die within a few weeks. Promises to replace them are also never honored.
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Re: Dwarf Adders

Postby Bushviper » Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:02 am

Swazi last week I was offered B. peringuei and B. schneideri and some were said to be "gravid" and captive raised. This is all bulldust.

THESE SNAKES WILL DIE IN CAPTIVITY. There is no doubt about it unless you have small appropriate geckos to feed it they will get thin and die. These snakes have NO COMMERCIAL value and my opinion is that anyone collecting these should be shot on sight.
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Re: Dwarf Adders

Postby armata » Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:32 am

Well said BV, my sentiments exactly.

Let us instead celebrate these wonderful little vipers in the wild (keeps me busy :)
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Re: Dwarf Adders

Postby JeffG » Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:59 pm

Hi guys

this is realy upseting that our adders are being caught from the wild and let die at the hands of conned hobbiests, it seems like quite a number of dwarf adders have become availible lately, are these mostly due to these smuggled animals coming across or is someone out there actualy working with these gems?
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Re: Dwarf Adders

Postby armata » Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:18 pm

Bitis armata/albanica/rubida have appeared on lists and I don't think anyone is breeding them. (my babies go back to dehoop).
Also I know that no collection permits have been granted for these species, also none from the N.Cape which covers B.schneideri and B.cornuta . B.caudalis and B.xeropaga.

If there are any one breeding in Europe/USA then the original stock was smuggled. Think also of B.parviocula in Ethiopia.
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Re: Dwarf Adders

Postby Quintin » Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:31 pm

There was a guy i contacted two weeks ago, as i have been looking for Horned adders everywhere!!! I think he came form East Londen! This guy promised me that he had LEGAL, beautiful, healthy and "gravid" horned adders.

I asked him, how he would proceed if i had to get the animals here with transport permits etc!!!. He said it would'nt be a problem as he was here in Vanderbyl for the week to visit hes family, and HE HAD THE SNAKES WITH HIM. This was the first sign that there was "a snake in the grass". He didnt even have a transport permit for himself!! and i can only imagine how stressed the poor snakes must have been.
He then said to me i can pick up the snakes from him, and once he gets back to East Londen, then he would sort out my permits!!! As far as i know this is NOT how its done!

I then asked him for pics, and he sent them to me.. The supposedly "gravid" female looked like a yearling. He also had many Horned adders with him!!!

Will look for the pics for you guys!

I then phoned one of my friends in Vereeniging that also keeps plenty of snakes and that has connections, and told him abnout this guy,,, he almost went biserck as hes been looking for this guy for some time now!!! He made a couple of calls to Natcon, i prosume, and they then wanted me to set a trap for this guy!

Fisrtly this guy is apperntly an ex Cop, so i didnt really want to get involved in somthing like this.. I'm not sure what the outcome was of this!!!

SO YES!!! there are plenty of assholes, raping our country of its beautiful and rare animals, trying to make a quick buck!!!! Please be carefull.

I can mention his name and the other popular site where he advertises, but pm me rather!!!

I have promised myself that I WILL acquire these brilliant snakes LEGALLY and HEALTHY! Just still looking for them! ;)

Q
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Re: Dwarf Adders

Postby swazi » Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:05 pm

Why are all talking in "code"...isn't it time we mention names of dishonest suppliers & dealers? Why are they getting away with nonsense like this?
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Re: Dwarf Adders

Postby JeffG » Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:48 pm

wow guys this is realy upseting, Armata you have confused me. . .if no collection permits are availible for Bitis Cornuta how come in the last month they have suddenly become availible, and claimed on permit aswell?
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Re: Dwarf Adders

Postby swazi » Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:11 pm

It seems for the right price some people can get anything, even permits.
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Re: Dwarf Adders

Postby armata » Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:14 pm

All I am saying is that NO permits have been issued by N. Cape or cape nature for collection of the species I mentioned. Go figure, maybe these are captive bred in Europe and made their way back here. There appears to be a lot of secrecy about who is breeding what with regard to dwarf adders, don't see why they cannot be up front about it.
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Re: Dwarf Adders

Postby JeffG » Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:29 pm

That is very unfortunate but so true as I have found out for myself.At first it seems cool to have all these contacts but when you see some of the conditions these animals are kept in it makes you sick to see what people will do for money. Back to the topic does anyone have any tips for captive husbandary of LEGAL dwarf adders regarding feeding schedules and the success of these husbandary measures. Oh and do you require a TOPS permit to breed these stunning little animals?. . .Armata you are so right this whole hobby seems to revolve around the aspect of secrecy and I am not just talking about adders I mean herps in general, everything seems to be heard along the lines of that ''Grapevine'' which we percieve so much to be an exclusive club of sorts. Whats with all the secrecy? if I had half the animals I have heard of being kept you guys would know all about it, these are animals to be proud of, we all seek information but how open are we when it comes to giving back info? Life is give and take not just take, this hobby would be so much more enjoyable and interesting if we shared all our experiences, not just the minor ones.

Sorry for the rant guys, Jeff
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Re: Dwarf Adders

Postby Whitelipp » Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:44 pm

Well just to give you an idea check out his post. http://www.sareptiles.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=12381#p95043
I feed my horned adders once a month on a jumper and that is it.
I have small water bowls in the enclosure.
Then as a substrate I used a course sand like substrate I got from pet matrix and its about 4cm deep as my horned adders love to hide in the sand.
I have a 100w basking lamp.
The enclosure size is 1200x400x400.

Well anything else?
Dont bite, strike!!!!

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Re: Dwarf Adders

Postby Serpy » Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:41 pm

P.s the guy you're talking about quintin is a member of this site.
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