Dwarf Adders

Archived topics, still open for discussion.

Re: Dwarf Adders

Postby armata » Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:43 pm

My male was 'doing his thing' at 25cm, and I have found gravid females at just under 25cm.

I have observed armata feeding in the wild, wrote it up in HAA couple of years back.
' I get my kicks on Route 62 '
User avatar
armata
SA Reptiles Honorary Member
 
Posts: 2986
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 2:19 pm
Location: Oudtshoorn, Western Cape

Re: Dwarf Adders

Postby JeffG » Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:13 pm

Hi Armata with breeding dwarf adders are you more concerned with length, weight or age? Are any of these points specifically important or are they all equally important? I know with Ball Pythons it is predominantly weight that you should think about when breeding but then again they are an entirely different type of snake.

Thanks,
Jeff
User avatar
JeffG
SA Reptiles Member
 
Posts: 159
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:02 pm

Re: Dwarf Adders

Postby armata » Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:50 pm

Most of the viper family, including armata, reach maturity in their fourth year. Mating regimes can vary and carry different costs for male and female. Males travel and become exposed during mating period, hence vulnerable to predation (and traffic!!!!). Female reproduction costs are to do with maintaining bodily condition (fat reserves). I have found with some vipers, e.g. European adder and puff adder, that females adopt an erratic breeding cycles, perhaps breeding every three years, although a lot of literature will state biennial breeding is the norm. I have found in the long term that biennial breeding is rather the exception. This may vary with location, i.e. equatorial species are more likely to breed every other year than say in temperate regions such as the Western Cape. The adders which are the exception are the night adders, which are income breeders (not capital breeders). They are egg-layers and can replenish fat reserves very quickly. Most of the Causus genus can produce more than one clutch per year.

I am still in the middle of my armata study and am researching various aspects of their ecology. Activity cycles has taken up a lot of my time and so has spatial distribtion. But, have accumulated quite a bit of data on breeding behaviour.
Even more so with the puff adder. Looking at paternity, single or multiple, and do large males always get the girl sort of thing.

Breeding cycles are something which should be considered when captive breeding vipers. getting them to breed every year does them no favours; although it looks great in the short term.
' I get my kicks on Route 62 '
User avatar
armata
SA Reptiles Honorary Member
 
Posts: 2986
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 2:19 pm
Location: Oudtshoorn, Western Cape

Re: Dwarf Adders

Postby OPHRYACUS » Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:34 pm

ELLO I GO NEEX MONTS SOUD AFRICA I NEED CONTACS THE PERSONN WORKING BITIS PIKMIES HELP ME PLEACE I FROM MEXICO
crotalus_basiliscus@hotmail.com thanks
OPHRYACUS
SA Reptiles Member
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:29 pm

Re: Dwarf Adders

Postby armata » Sat Nov 15, 2008 6:26 pm

Hello - you might mean me.

PM me and will give you my contact details
' I get my kicks on Route 62 '
User avatar
armata
SA Reptiles Honorary Member
 
Posts: 2986
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 2:19 pm
Location: Oudtshoorn, Western Cape

Re: Dwarf Adders

Postby calechidna » Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:45 pm

Hi,

I will get back to topic. These are my beauties:

1.0 Bitis peringueyi (Walvis Bay)
Image

0.1 Bitis peringueyi (Walvis Bay)
Image

0.1 Bitis peringueyi (Swakopmund)
Image
calechidna
SA Reptiles Member
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:10 am
Location: Germany

Re: Dwarf Adders

Postby JeffG » Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:51 pm

Hi Calechidna,

You have some amazingly beautiful animals, how do you keep them because from the responses on here peringueyi and shneideri arent said to do well in captivity. Have you ever bred them? I cant wait to here your reply regarding these adders as there arent many around that I know off, not that I know that much lol but that is why we are here, to learn.

So teach away.

Thanks a million,
Jeff
User avatar
JeffG
SA Reptiles Member
 
Posts: 159
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:02 pm

Re: Dwarf Adders

Postby calechidna » Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:56 pm

Hi Jeff,

thanks a lot.
I just got this beauties some months ago, so I can't give much information about the capture, due to a lack of experience.
I just keep them seperate at the moment and I am on the way to hibernate them.
It seems that they are doing well at day temperatures of between 30°C-35°C (spot) and night temperatures of average 20°C. For hibernation I will keep them seperated in plastic boxes at temperatures of average 18°C at day with 3-5 hours lighting and room temperature at night. Let`s have a look when I bring them together in January/February.

Cheers
Florian
calechidna
SA Reptiles Member
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:10 am
Location: Germany

Re: Dwarf Adders

Postby gaboon69 » Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:10 am

I have been wondering Armata.
Its so often mentioned that Bitis schneideri is the smallest adder in the world,yet my Branch has smaller average length measurements for peringueyi.
Whats going on here?
What is this conspiracy all about? :)
Those who dwell among the beauties and mysteries of the earth are never alone or weary of life ~
Rachel Carson
User avatar
gaboon69
SA Reptiles Member
 
Posts: 1674
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:51 pm
Location: Gauteng my deng

Re: Dwarf Adders

Postby armata » Sun Nov 30, 2008 8:19 pm

Just back from the Free State & HAA Conf.

Bryan Maritz gave a very good presentation re his prelim results on B.schneideri; one fact is that the neos weight in a just 2g.
So they just may pip the post as the smallest viper; I think he said that adults weigh in at around 11g and females have more body mass re relative lenght than males.
I am delighted that someone else is working on the dwarf adders and Bryan is doing a great job. Look forward to more results.

Just one Q. who exactly is breeding B.schneideri and B.perinueyi? Not in SA. Probably same story as B.parviocula; root stock illegal and now they are all over.
' I get my kicks on Route 62 '
User avatar
armata
SA Reptiles Honorary Member
 
Posts: 2986
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 2:19 pm
Location: Oudtshoorn, Western Cape

Re: Dwarf Adders

Postby gaboon69 » Sun Nov 30, 2008 8:44 pm

Did he say anything interesting about their movement Armata?
I mean do they cover minimal distances or considerable amounts.
Heard some rumors :)
Those who dwell among the beauties and mysteries of the earth are never alone or weary of life ~
Rachel Carson
User avatar
gaboon69
SA Reptiles Member
 
Posts: 1674
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:51 pm
Location: Gauteng my deng

Re: Dwarf Adders

Postby Bushviper » Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:36 am

The seed stock for these adders may be illegal but by the same token so is every Australian reptile available today. As long as they are being bred overseas and not crushed in the diamond mines on a daily basis then that would not be a bad thing.
It is easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.

Those who are afraid to ask are ashamed of learning.
User avatar
Bushviper
Founder Member
 
Posts: 17358
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:02 am
Location: Pretoria

Re: Dwarf Adders

Postby Horned Adder » Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:32 am

Hello

From my knowledge, B. schneideri has never been bred in captivity - even in Europe oder the USA. I have had bred peringueyi twice, and one have had 3 babies from an pregnant illegal exported female from Swakopmund Namibia, which ended at my place and gave birth to 2.1 healthy little cuties ;-)

Unfortunately at the moment I do not have a good breeding group any longer - would love to bred them again because with CB animals we can avoid that further speciemens will be illegaly exported just for the trade and pet marked. But problem is, WC animals you can get here easely for 200 Euro each, for CB I was asking 400 Euro per animal anno 2005 - so laymen have always prefer the much cheaper WC animals. Unfortunately they all die within some weeks, when they arrive in wrong an inexperienced hands. That's also the reason why many are thinking that peringueyi is not doin well in captivity......I have a single male from my CB 2005 at home, and he's doing fine and growing like weeds.

With schneideri it is different, from my experiences females are often doing great for years, but males die within weeks or months after arrival. Usually females also do better accept mice as food, males usually refuse - which means you have to feed lizzards :-/

They are very very interesting animals, and I love schneideri soo much, but will never try to work with them again - it's a shame to work with illegaly imported animals, from which is known that they will die with greatest possible guarantee !!

Will more concentrate on peringueyi, caudalis, cornuta and atropos in the future and try to bred them regularly - thinks that's the best way.

Cheers
Marco
Horned Adder
SA Reptiles Member
 
Posts: 78
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 7:33 pm
Location: Switzerland

Re: Dwarf Adders

Postby Alan Hyde » Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:35 pm

I have a friend over here in UK working with schneideri, he's put alot of work into research and will be attempting breeding very soon. Will keep you posted

Al
Alan Hyde
SA Reptiles Member
 
Posts: 547
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:26 am
Location: Ash Vale Surrey UK

Re: Dwarf Adders

Postby gaboon69 » Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:52 pm

I know a guy working on schneideri too.
I have been told just the opposite Horned adder.
Mr. Hide said that he has had more success with males (even taking pinks) than females.
Funny how different people experience things differently.
Those who dwell among the beauties and mysteries of the earth are never alone or weary of life ~
Rachel Carson
User avatar
gaboon69
SA Reptiles Member
 
Posts: 1674
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:51 pm
Location: Gauteng my deng

PreviousNext

Return to Active archive

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron