Bitis Gabonica in the wild?

[babrepti]

hey all

Actually just wondering has anybody on the site actually seen a east african gaboon in the wild? I was fortunate about 6 years ago, in the campsite at Maphelane(just next to Duku duku forests), it was crossing the road. Sadly those were the days before a had a camera.

Are there reports of people still finding them ? and if so where ?

Was near the Duku duku forests the other day, and it has been over run by squatters, the worrying thing is i was talking to some of the locals at Monzi(near st lucia) and was hearing stories about natives coming around with gaboons in sacks tryingn to sel them!!!!!!!!!

Cant help but worry......

[gaboon69]

You are one lucky guy. Thats an awesome experience. I know armata should have had such an encounter quite a few times. Some specimens were translocated to Umlalazi from Dukuduku and in the process the locals got paid to collect for relocation. [R.Kyle, KZN Wildlife]. This probably spurred the money making idea you mentioned. Anybody know how successful the Umlalazi translocation was?

[gaboon69]

And whats happening with our population in the south? Heard murmers of B. gabonica natalensis?

[BushSnake]

Gaboon69, in what paper and when was this relocation done? I know the author well, so I'll ask him what the outcome was but I would like to see the original paper / article first.

[armata]

The translocation to Umlalazi was after my time in KwZulu in the 1980's was this close to the mangroves?

My main study sites were at Monzi and Eastern Shores. Had good female recaptures there, some persisiting in sam area for two years. Also have found up to five males and immature on the road in a night, often warm drizzle.

More recently work has been done radio tracking on Eastern Shores, still to be published.

[gaboon69]

@ armata. They don't mention any specific release locality, just Umlalazi. @ bushsnake. I shall give you an e-mail if you are interested. Whats your address?

[Wolverine]

Yes, Umlalazi Reserve has mangrove swamps abutting on to the coastal forest. I'm not sure what the latest on this population is though.

A guy called Jon Warner has done some interesting mark-recapture work in St Lucia area in the last few years (probably same guy as Armata mentioned.)

Gaboon69 can you elaborate on the possible southern 'natalensis'? Roughly where is the 'population in the south'?

[gaboon69]

Unfortunately I can't elaborate, just speculate as the work is still being done. I suppose a safe guess would exclude the Zim./Moz. population from ours in Zululand. Lets wait and see.

[Wolverine]

The KZN population is definitely isolated from the others, I wasn't sure if you meant the whole SA population or some isolated pop in SA. I'll be interested to hear what happens. A year ago, Wolfgang Wuster said on another SAReptiles discussion that genetically 'B. gabonica is remarkably uniform from KZN to all the way to Cameroon (e.g., a fraction of the genetic distance between a KZN and a Cameroon gabonica than between a De Hoop and an Oudtshoorn puffie)', so I wonder what's changed? More intensive molecular analysis? Interesting..

[BushSnake]

They decided that they didn't pick the correct 3 out of 1 000 000 00 00 00 genes and tried a different 3

[WW]

They decided that they didn't pick the correct 3 out of 1 000 000 00 00 00 genes and tried a different 3

It's not so much a matter of "picking the correct genes" as defining exactly what question you want to ask and how you define a subspecies. The mitochondrial DNA data we have so far basically tell us that the southern African B. gabonica share a very recent common ancestor (prob of the order of 1 million years old - that's very recent in this context, and when compared with other widespread African snake species) with all other B. gabonica populations - they do not have a long history of independent evolution. The mtDNA data therefore give no grounds for recognising subspecies within B. gabonica on the basis of separate evolutionary history.

However, that does not exclude the possibility that these populations may have differentiated recently and rapidly in their morphology, ecology or whatever. Depending on the extent of the differentiation and on whether the populations concerned are geographically isolated or not, some would consider this sufficient justification for considering a distinctive population a different subspecies or even species, even though the differentiation may have been recent or rapid. A good example of this is the Brazilian golden lancehead (Bothrops insularis) - this is a very recent (tens of thousands of years) offshoot of the mainland species Bothrops jararaca (mtDNA differences are virtually zero, the two species sharing some haplotypes), yet it is profoundly different in scalation, pattern and ecology, and nobody has suggested that it is not a different species.

NOTE: I have absolutely no information on whether South African B. gabonica are at all differentiated or not! I am simply trying to point out that there is not necessarily a contradiction between lack of mtDNA differentiation and separate taxonomic status.

[BushSnake]

Thanks WW. And as you said, it all comes down to what is considered a different species (or a subspecies in this case). The comment I made was a joke, but I often get a bit agitated when taxonomists classify new species based only on the genetical analysis of the group. I don't argue that the DNA doesn't show that species/subspecies are in fact different, but when two specimens come into contact with one another, they cannot tell the differences in each others DNA (whether mtDNA, nuclear DNA or certain genes...), so there has to be more than simply genetical differences to make something a different species (my non-scientific humble opinion of course ). So all I'm saying is that I think a difference in mtDNA should not necessarily mean a difference in taxonomic status either, which is the simply your statement in reverse.

BTW - Are there any taxonomists that have looked at other external features or chemistry such as feromones, display in UV / IR light spectrums, etc in reptile world, and if so, can you please post a link or link to an article?

NOTE: I'm not a scientist, and definitely not a taxonomist, so take everything I say with a pinch of salt.... It's purely speculation and the questions I come up with when I think about these matters.