Topic offshoot - Bitis Albanica faces extinction

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Re: Topic offshoot - Bitis Albanica faces extinction

Postby fredsmith » Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:21 pm

BushSnake wrote:But I tend to agree with Armata that discussions about species that are probably critically endangered does not belong on an open forum...or at least be extra carefull about what you post...

This has been an awesome read, seeing you folk "in action" doing your utmost to ensure the survival of an amazing animal and it's enviroment is inspiring.
Thanks to all for that.
Question though, Why wouldn't the continued discussion relating to critically endangered species be suited to the open forum?
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Re: Topic offshoot - Bitis Albanica faces extinction

Postby armata » Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:40 pm

Well Fred, short answer, politics and diplomacy.

Sooner or later someone will bad mouth the mining company and/or NatCon. And that is not the way to go.

Also there are those reading this who's intentions may not be honourable; so we cannot be too site specific.

And remember collectors are very good at what they do, I am not going to repeat all the instances and species that I know of, but you get my drift?
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Re: Topic offshoot - Bitis Albanica faces extinction

Postby Wolf777 » Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:03 pm

I know this is off topic but will someone please post more info on this species, is it really facing extinction? :smt009
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Re: Topic offshoot - Bitis Albanica faces extinction

Postby fredsmith » Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:18 pm

Kinda makes a bit more sense in that light... Thanks Armata.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.
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Re: Topic offshoot - Bitis Albanica faces extinction

Postby armata » Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:41 pm

Well, here is what one looks like, a male. As you can see the five species of the cornuta/inornata group are very similar in appearance. The dwarf adders as a whole, above plus the other small adders have been placed in the subgenus Calechidna, with the exception of the Kenyan endemic Bitis worthingtoni, which was placed in subgenus Keniabitis, the sole member of this subgenus.
The taxonomy is still ongoing.

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Re: My new babies [B. albanica]

Postby phish » Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:53 pm

Copperbob wrote:Has anyone spoken directly to the mining company or land owners? I say this because no company wants to have "Extinction of a species" on their resume, especially now with most companies trying to be "environmentally friendly".


Maybe consider buying a few PPC shares, then you have the right to get this issue as a agenda item at the company's AGM and force the directors to dealwith it and state a position in front of all their shareholders. If you could get a large institiutional shareholder to vote with you it may be possible to accomplish quite a lot.

This would be by far the most effective means of highlighting the plight of bitis albanica, will take time and dedication from an individual or a group though.
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Re: Topic offshoot - Bitis Albanica faces extinction

Postby Wolf777 » Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:01 pm

Thanks Tony, how badly endangered are they of becoming extinct?
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Re: Topic offshoot - Bitis Albanica faces extinction

Postby armata » Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:07 pm

Well Wolf, maybe even in my lifetime, and I'm er, well, quite old.

But BS hit a true note re the unique habitat and biodiversity. BS if we could draw up a species list, inc plants and butterflies, it would be a good plan.
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Re: Topic offshoot - Bitis Albanica faces extinction

Postby Wolf777 » Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:15 pm

I hope this all turns out for the better, because if it doesn't then this species may also end up on the list of animals ill never get to see in my lifetime.
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Re: Topic offshoot - Bitis Albanica faces extinction

Postby Copperbob » Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:29 pm

Very interesting indeed!
@Telescopus Please correct me if I’m wrong but are you saying this type of Bontveld is unique only to this specific area.
It seems like their habitats and the snakes themselves haven’t been studied very well, another reason to try and protect them.
@Rob I suppose it’s easier said then done hey.
About keeping some information secret, defiantly! Only the guys that are directly involved need to know certain information but please keep the rest of us updated.
I’m sure that if we all pull together, we will get somewhere. This is Africa and POWER BY NUMBERS seems to be the only way to get anything done.
It’s great to see foreigners are also willing to help out where they can. So I think its safe to say their are a lot of people standing behind the guys who are directly involved with the situation.
Lets also make an effort not bad mouth any of the organizations involved.
Brilliant read!
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Re: Topic offshoot - Bitis Albanica faces extinction

Postby justinvBreda » Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:04 pm

copperbob i am having a meeting tomorrow and will cal you with the results, i thought of something like making a group on facebook(as daft as it sounds)and getting as many people to join the group and eventually stat a potition when there is a vast amount of people in the group and then try get someone with a high rank in conservation(armata or someone) to present it to the mining fools and hopfully get them to understand our passion and determination to saving such a amazing animal!any thoughts are welcome
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Re: Topic offshoot - Bitis Albanica faces extinction

Postby froot » Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:28 am

@Telescopus Please correct me if I’m wrong but are you saying this type of Bontveld is unique only to this specific area.
It seems like their habitats and the snakes themselves haven’t been studied very well, another reason to try and protect them.


It does seem as though there is a lack of research on them, nobody has answered my previous question yet. The land owners will ask for reasons based on research by recognised scientists before they will accommodate the conservation of this species. I feel that the ball is in 'our' court, unless I'm mistaken, we need to have a watertight argument and proof to back it before proper pressure can be applied on them. We need to prove firstly that the bedrock and vegetation is vital for their existance, and determine why the won't occur in nearby regions where the geology and flora differs. Even their classification seems to be undecided, Wolverine has a valid point.
What were the findings when SARCA did their research in the area?
I believe that B. Albanica were found close to Grahamstown not so long ago, what conclusions can be drawn from this?
Exactly how bad is the situation?
Facts guys, where's the facts.
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Re: Topic offshoot - Bitis Albanica faces extinction

Postby Rob » Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:20 pm

FROOT - I dont think SARCA did anything in that area.
As far as Im aware you are correct, Grahamstown was a locality too, one of 5 which is now down to just 1. Very sad. Conclusions? That we are developing too fast with little regard for nature.

The thing about trying to get a portion of land allocated, how big does it need to be? In my opinion the size needed will far exceed the size the cement company would ever consider allowing.
Then once the mining has stopped and all is moved off, now the place is a known hotspot for these snakes, will there be "game guards" to stop collecting?
Forgive me for being pessimistic but that's the way I see it.

Tonys prediction of them possibly becoming extinct during his lifetime is not far off the mark in my modest opinion.
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Re: Topic offshoot - Bitis Albanica faces extinction

Postby garth » Sat Aug 08, 2009 10:09 am

Just a thought (I may have overread), but is albanicas IUCN status not still 'data deficient'? Surely if research could tie up its IUCN and red data book status to 'critically endangered' then more could be done to stop development in there habitat range? Its not only the cement company that has stakes in the habitat surely?
Whats this nonsense about genetically modified food being dangerous and not tasting good!?! I had a leg of salmon yesterday and it was delicious!
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Re: Topic offshoot - Bitis Albanica faces extinction

Postby BushSnake » Sat Aug 08, 2009 10:23 am

B.albanica would not have been assessed in the 1988 RDB, as it was only described in the 90s. Don't know if it has been formally assessed between 1997 and now? It has probably already been assessed for SARCA, although the results have obviously not been published. My guess is that it will fall under critically endangered because of habitat degradation (Criteria A or B of IUCN red listing). Can't wait for that publication....
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