Bitis caudalis and cornuta

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Postby froot » Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:15 am

In some parts of b. caudalis range the winter is very harsh frequently dropping well below freezing. I would assume they are holed up out of reach from the cold in hibernation. Does anybody know if this hibernation is necessary to trigger copulation?
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Postby Horned Adder » Tue Jan 09, 2007 1:05 pm

I do not hibernate them, it doesn't matter where they do come from.
But I keep them cooler in the Swiss summer, and do more heat in the swiss winter - so I try to imitate the difference between SA/Namibia and West-Europe.

It's not a big difference in temp and humidity, but probably enough to stimulate and to induce the mating season.

I think best would be to hibernate them at about 15°-18°C for just a 2-3 months in the SA/Namibian Winter. But I am not an expert and regular breeder, so I am probably wrong.

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Postby Bushviper » Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:19 pm

I would say that for the 2 or 3 month period I would drop the night temperature to very cold (about 10 degrees) but raise the temperature during the day to the low to mid 20's.

Horned adders occur within one kilometre of my house and I have been there in winter. It is very cold at night but warms up during the day. At night they will be under rocks or in holes where it does not get down to freezing temperatures. The air temperatures are only in the low 20's but where they bask it is a bit hotter.

In the desert area they will have burrowed down in the sand and have the same sort of cycle.
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Postby Horned Adder » Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:43 pm

You're probably right on that. But because B. caudalis and co are rare in Europe, I wouldn't go for a too big risk. And a cool hibernation is always is risk of a loss......for me there's safety first ;) But you are definitely right on that, that the temperature could easely be deeper then I mentioned before.

Here some new shots of the first meal for my caudalis CB'2007. You can see the Hill's pulp in use... ;)

Preparing for the action, safety first - for me and the snake of course:

Image

lunch time...

Image

Image

After using the stomach tube, you have to carefully massage the pulp downwards. If you don't do this, the snakes regurgitates about 50-10% of the pulp:


Image

After it's meal:

Image

Hope you guys like the pictures, sorry about the poor quality, but my girlfriend is a terrible photographer :lol:

Cheers

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Postby Pythonodipsas » Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:17 pm

Nice Marco! Great illustration
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Postby Rob » Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:25 pm

Yeah, interesting. Thanks.

Marco - What is the oldest snake you have fed using this method? Do you think it would work fine for adults which don't want to eat? I can't see why not.
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Postby Horned Adder » Tue Jan 09, 2007 11:12 pm

Thanks guys.....just thought that I could share it with you and the SA reptiles community.

It's no problem to use this method also for bigger snakes. I have used it also for adult peringueyis before the startet to accept mice, for Crotalus molosus molossus and a 90cm Bitis nasicornis WC.

It's never a problem, but you have to choose a tube with the proper diameter, the one you can see on the pictures is only for adder babies. For a medium Crotalus it should be much bigger in size.

But don't forget it is only for a transition period, it's not a final solution for the rest of a snake life. Sooner or later also here, stress symptoms will evolve, and the snake will die an unpleasant death. It's absolutely suitable for 2-3 months - without any problems, and it is also good for 4-6 months, but not for much longer.


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Postby Pythonodipsas » Tue Jan 09, 2007 11:28 pm

Did youy ever try a 'Pinkie Pump'? It has nice rounded tip for easy insertion
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Postby Horned Adder » Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:32 am

Yes I have used the pinky pump, of course :cool: , but it isn't something for my taste - form my point of view it's a very ugly and perverted job :roll:

Additionally you don't have such a good sensitiveness and feeling, as you have it when you're working with a plastic syringe and a stomach tube. That's much more ''smooth'' if you know what I mean..... ;) sorry for my terrible english by the way ... :roll:

Cheers

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Postby Bushviper » Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:02 am

Your english is a lot better than our German or Italian or French so you do not need to apologise for it. If there is something we are unsure about we will ask you.

I have seen a pinky pump get something stuck in it and when more pressure was given the blockage gave way and the snake exploded. Minus one Spotted house snake.

I prefer to use the soft rubber tubes because they have a rounded tip. This cannot cut the snake on the way down and can bend with the snake if it moves a bit.

Always suck up the mixture through the holes in the side of the tube. That way whatever goes in will be able to go out too.

Marco I believe that as long as you raise the daytime temperatures in winter the snake will not get sick, stress or die. Possibly you should try just dropping the night time temperatures but keep the daytime ones at what they are in summer too. That variation in temperature will have to stimulate the snakes to "hibernate". I think they will enjoy the rest period too.
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Postby Pythonodipsas » Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:15 am

Yeah pinkie pumps can be quite debauched.

Your english, punctuation and grammer is a lot better than several other 'english' people on these forums.
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Postby Bushviper » Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:24 am

Oh you mean "grammar" as in the way sentences are written. Yeah some of the spelling is not that hot either.

Sorry I could not resist that one. I just had to!!!!!!
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Postby Pythonodipsas » Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:37 am

yeah I meen gramma in the way sentinces are ritten i donot meen the otha way most of all i hate it when no punctuation is used when see bad speling it can also be iritating some peepl just need skool agen
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Postby Bushviper » Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:41 am

xegatly.
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hehe...

Postby Horned Adder » Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:56 pm

you are so funny guys :lol: ;)

I feel much better now...... :cool:

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