Snakehunting

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Snakehunting

Postby dpedwards08 » Wed May 11, 2011 4:11 pm

Are there a lot of people in Africa that collect cobras and mambas from the wild for their collections or is that frowned upon by herpetoculturists?
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Re: Snakehunting

Postby Fooble » Wed May 11, 2011 4:32 pm

It's in fact illegal to collect specimens from the wild for collections.
With one exception in a particular province.
Organized crime comes in more forms than one.
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Re: Snakehunting

Postby Bushviper » Wed May 11, 2011 4:42 pm

In other parts of Africa there are still people who do it full time. The animals are usually sold to dealers who wholesale them in Europe and the US. Most of these are sickly and die in any case. A few dealers do go to the trouble of supplying decent stock but most will send any rubbish as long as it arrives alive.

The market for wild caught animals is slowing down rather rapidly. Just about all the species are available from captive bred stock (with a few exceptions) and these do far better in captivity.

Some people who milk these snakes still buy up wild ones because they milk them a few times before they die which is financially viable but the demand for venom has slowed in other countries outside South Africa.

True herpers generally stay away from wild caught animals unless it is a rare species that is not available as captive bred. If you go capture your own specimens then obviously they stand a better chance of surviving in captivity.

Why the question?
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Re: Snakehunting

Postby it_bit_me » Wed May 11, 2011 4:45 pm

If the catch and release guys did it they would clear out a town in just a few years.
If I'm gonna be an old, lonely man, I'm gonna need a thing, you know, a hook, like that guy on the subway who eats his own face. So I figure I'll be Crazy Man with a Snake, y'know. Crazy Snake Man. And I'll get more snakes, call them my babies, kids won't walk past my place, they will run. "Run away from Crazy Snake Man, " they'll shout!”
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Re: Snakehunting

Postby BOOGY » Wed May 11, 2011 6:32 pm

What do you mean by that it_bit_me?
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Re: Snakehunting

Postby it_bit_me » Wed May 11, 2011 9:30 pm

I mean some towns have only one snake catcher and he is responsible for all the snakes, throughout the year. If that guy was a bad apple we'd have local extinction in more places.
If I'm gonna be an old, lonely man, I'm gonna need a thing, you know, a hook, like that guy on the subway who eats his own face. So I figure I'll be Crazy Man with a Snake, y'know. Crazy Snake Man. And I'll get more snakes, call them my babies, kids won't walk past my place, they will run. "Run away from Crazy Snake Man, " they'll shout!”
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Re: Snakehunting

Postby Bushviper » Thu May 12, 2011 9:01 am

it_bit_me wrote:I mean some towns have only one snake catcher and he is responsible for all the snakes, throughout the year. If that guy was a bad apple we'd have local extinction in more places.


Technically he should only be catching snakes in built up areas where they would have been killed anyway. I doubt even if he kept all the snakes that it would make any difference to the surrounding populations.
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Re: Snakehunting

Postby Jamster » Thu May 12, 2011 11:16 am

I doubt he could keep all the snakes :smt012
1.0-reticulated python (Ripcord)
1.1-burmese pythons
5.5-brown house snakes
1.0-taiwanese ratsnake
3.8-BCI
1.1-corn snakes
1.2-rhombic skaapstekers
1.0-yellow rat snake
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Re: Snakehunting

Postby dpedwards08 » Thu May 12, 2011 1:32 pm

The reason I ask is because if I lived in Africa, I'd want to go catch cobras and mambas in the wild for my own collection. Eventually I'd try to breed them and keep the babies and release the adults. I wasn't sure if anybody does that sort of thing.
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Re: Snakehunting

Postby TonyK » Thu May 12, 2011 1:41 pm

dpedwards08 wrote:The reason I ask is because if I lived in Africa, I'd want to go catch cobras and mambas in the wild for my own collection. Eventually I'd try to breed them and keep the babies and release the adults. I wasn't sure if anybody does that sort of thing.

I think its a bad idea to try and release long term captives back into the wild.Who knows what diseases they could pick up from other captive animals.
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Re: Snakehunting

Postby Mr S » Sun May 29, 2011 8:54 pm

Come now guys, we have all done it- caught wild reptiles and shoved them into cages.

I think as you move along the herpetological evolutionary time line from egotistical school snake hero to experienced reptile conservationist the need to box every catch becomes less and less. (excluding the illegal trade bastards obviously)

I also believe snake removal guys in towns and cities would really have to be active to dent wild population numbers- this however does not mean we should wait to try and "cure" extinctions, so "preventing" it now is first prize.

I also think that re- releasing wild caught snakes over a period of time would not have much significance even having been exposed to captive environments and their mess. At least putting the breeding stock back out there is a nice gesture. Having said this its probably safer to just keep them in captivity forever as you might never know what the repercussions can be. If you had driven over it with your car or stolen it from the bush the end result is the same, snake removed!

Can one catch out and drive over enough Mfezis and B mambas in the Lowveld to worry about their populations? Doubt it!!
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Re: Snakehunting

Postby fuscusV2 » Sun May 29, 2011 9:59 pm

I would imagine human habitation is the real threat - limited space is getting less and less. Even farming affects habitat - mostly big commercial type. Having said that, i also think there are alot more people catching snakes these days than before so yes, it all works together to reduce population. The problem is that as people we wait for Discovery channel to announce a species demise before we even bat an eyelid. Conservation should be there for plentiful species too. Education is not a bad thing. So is snakehunting, but people should be encouraged to treat these animals as wild animals not pets IMO. And I'm referring mainly to wild caught specimens - i.e. keep it for a month, observe it, let it go.
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Re: Snakehunting

Postby dpedwards08 » Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:53 am

I'm just bringing this topic up for discussion. I don't know if I'd really go out and catch mambas. Obviously, a captive bred individual is generally going to be healthier, eat better, and maybe even reproduce better due to the lower stress volumes as opposed to a wild caught individual. How many people are there in Africa (as a continent) that breed Jameson's Mambas, West African Green Mambas, East African Green Mambas, and Black Mambas? Can the captive breeders supply the entire demand for all four species of mambas? If not, I believe a captive breeding program wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, starting with wild caught animals and moving towards a more captive oriented goal, just to get the program started. I think most people would agree that from a conservation standpoint, it's going to get to the point where there won't be much wild habitat left on this planet to support a healthy population of any given species and captive breeding programs are going to be critical if we want to save any species. It's just food for thought. I agree with "Mr S". I find it hard to believe that there is a reptile keeper out there that hasn't caught a reptile in the wild and kept it at home in the beginning. Don't forget your roots and where you came from guys.
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Re: Snakehunting

Postby jka » Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:48 am

Habitat conservation is the way forward. What does it help if the specie is only seen in captivity he is ecologically dead.
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Re: Snakehunting

Postby kinghero » Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:07 am

I know this might be a stupid Question: Why would one want to buy venom?
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