Sick Vine snake please help

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Sick Vine snake please help

Postby Cronje Rademan » Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:17 pm

Hi Guys
Can anyone help me with this problem I have. She is a big adult female. Her condition is still very good. She is eating well even with the swelling and it doesn't seem to bother her very much. She is very alert to any movement in front of the cage. I started to notice the swelling about two weeks ago and it doesn't seem to get bigger. I suspect it could have gotten injured while feeding. This is a wild caught and I would like to release it agian but not in this state.
Any help or advice on how I can treat this.
Thanks
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Re: Sick Vine snake please help

Postby herpitologica » Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:39 pm

That looks like mouthrot to me.Not sure on how to handle that with venomous snakes,sure some of the experts could suggest a safe course of action.Good luck.
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Re: Sick Vine snake please help

Postby it_bit_me » Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:20 pm

These guys are very heat dependent so make sure your cage is warm enough so she has a fighting chance.
If I'm gonna be an old, lonely man, I'm gonna need a thing, you know, a hook, like that guy on the subway who eats his own face. So I figure I'll be Crazy Man with a Snake, y'know. Crazy Snake Man. And I'll get more snakes, call them my babies, kids won't walk past my place, they will run. "Run away from Crazy Snake Man, " they'll shout!”
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Re: Sick Vine snake please help

Postby Cronje Rademan » Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:05 pm

@ herpitologica and it_bit_me.
Thanks for the feedback. I spoke to someone a bit earlier and he suggested I give a coarse of Antibiotics to be injected inter-muscular and suggested Baytril. He also said I can use a light solution of Betadine to rince and disinfect the mouth. Any suggestions on handling and other methods of administring the medicine to cause the least amount of injury to the snake itself, because they are very fragile snakes.
Any suggestions wil be welcome.
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Re: Sick Vine snake please help

Postby michael » Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:38 am

Hi Cronje
I don’t think this is mouth rot. I would try and get a swab of that fluid coming out the mouth to a vet so that they can identify the bacteria causing the problem. Also its hard to tell what is happening only from looking at the outside of the mouth you may need to look inside to see if there is any damage. What have you been feeding this snake?
Baytril is a good general purpose antibiotic but rather get a proper drug course from a vet once the cause of the problem has been identified. Injecting a thin snake like this can be tricky so rather let an experienced snake keeper help you out if you don’t feel up to the job. I would suggest that you tube the snake for this procedure. This is the best way in my opinion to safely work with venomous snakes. I’m sure you know this, but please remember, especially when trying to help this animal, that it is highly venomous and quite capable of killing you.
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Re: Sick Vine snake please help

Postby Cronje Rademan » Fri Apr 15, 2011 7:10 pm

Just some feed back on this. I had the snake at the vet this after noon. A swab of the mouth was taken and some bacteria were present. Mouth rot were not the case here. A bacterial infection was caused by the injury sustained during feeding. The vet gave it an injection of Baytril anti-biotic. He also gave me a coarse for 5 days to be administered oraly and a pro-biotic called Protexin to be mixed with the anti-biotic. He suggested I rinse the mouth twice daily with F10 anti-septic solution. The dosage of Baytril is 1mg per 100g bodyweight.
Baytril as a broad spectrum anti-biotic that can be used effectively against most bacterial related infections and diseases.
Hope this helps.
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Re: Sick Vine snake please help

Postby Bushviper » Sat Apr 16, 2011 9:21 am

How did it injure itself feeding. That is a natural process and should not cause injuries?
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Re: Sick Vine snake please help

Postby Cronje Rademan » Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:06 pm

Hi Bushviper.
As you know the twig/vine snake grabs hold of their prey and has to chew in the venom in order to envenomate its prey. I fed it a live subadult mouse which the snake grabbed in the midbody and thats when the mouse reached around and bit the snake in the corner of the mouth. This has caused a bacterial infection called Stomatitis, which was identified by the vet after inspecting a smear taken from the mouth, under a microscope.
I believe once a snake is taken out of its natural environment all processes regarding its survival is not natural anymore. Thats why we have to recreate these natural processes as accurate as possible. Yes the snake did act upon its genetic engraved insticnt when persuing its prey, but naturally it won't be chasing around bred lab mice around in a cage. I also believe that any WC snakes that I will release again, have to be fed on live prey, unfortionately this one got hurt and its my bad. I also deworm all snakes before releasing so I can be shure all WC that get released will go back doing what they do best with a clean bill of health.
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Re: Sick Vine snake please help

Postby it_bit_me » Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:37 pm

It's not such a good idea too keep them that long if your gonna release them. You'll introduce captive diseases into the wild that way. Rather send them out early without the deworming and such.
If I'm gonna be an old, lonely man, I'm gonna need a thing, you know, a hook, like that guy on the subway who eats his own face. So I figure I'll be Crazy Man with a Snake, y'know. Crazy Snake Man. And I'll get more snakes, call them my babies, kids won't walk past my place, they will run. "Run away from Crazy Snake Man, " they'll shout!”
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Re: Sick Vine snake please help

Postby Bushviper » Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:56 pm

Once you have removed it from the wild it is no longer a wild animal and should not be fed live food.

If you plan on releasing it why do you keep it in captivity for any period of time in any case? DNA can be taken and the animal released straight away. If you have to relocate it then capture it and take in to be released within a 20 km radius.

If you want to keep it for fun then dont ever release it if it has been in contact with other captive especially from other areas and especially no exotics. Feeding it food which has been commercially produced like white mice is another bad idea.

Treating it with antibiotics and dewormers and then releasing it is also a bad idea.

If you want it to be "natural" then it would be natural for the snake to get sick, starve and die and the scavengers would then eat the body. You should not intervene.
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