Puppy vs Puff adder

This section will help you get first aid treatment protocols incase of an envenomation. This includes indigenous and exotic reptiles. Please do not use this forum for photo sharing, etc.

Re: Puppy vs Puff adder

Postby Bushviper » Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:25 pm

It is unusual for a dog to survive that length of time and then suddenly die. If you have enough antivenom circulating then it should recover rather quickly. It might still have some effects from where the tissues have died. Keep it calm and keep the drip running and the doggie should be fine.

Let us know how the puppy progresses.
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Re: Puppy vs Puff adder

Postby wildfrontier » Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:37 pm

It just shows how little we really know about venom and it's effects.
I have seen video footage of a honey badger that had a full on bite from a puffy. The honey badger seemed to go into some sort of coma / torpor and after about 4 or 5 hours, revived and went about it's business with no apparent after effects. All this with no antivenom or treatment..... and yet I have seen a kudu - hugely different in size to a honey badger, die within 48hrs from a puff adder bite. The kudu had a calf which we tried to hand rear, but the baby was too young, and subsequently died. The calf was so young, we suspect the mother was bitten at or around the time of the birth. Just goes to show, more body mass does not necessarily give you an advantage... we just don't know enough about venom and it's effects yet to know how it is going to affect various species of animals.
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Re: Puppy vs Puff adder

Postby yoson10 » Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:06 pm

wildfrontier wrote:, more body mass does not necessarily give you an advantage... we just don't know enough about venom and it's effects yet to know how it is going to affect various species of animals.


No not at all..In fact often times the smaller animals are much more resistant to venom than much larger ones.... Meerkats, Mongooses, Ratels are all very very strong against many snake venoms yet I have seen multiple accounts of rhinos and elephants( even full grown bulls) being killed by snake bite.( I will post them if you like)

As for dogs they are quite weak to neurotoxic venom( like humans) but seem to be better with cytotoxic venom( Puff adder, Spitting Cobra etc) I have a bunch of studies I will post later...They don't seem to be stronger against neurotoxic venom than humans are...but they seem to be a little bit stronger against cytotoxic venom.

Cattle are also very weak to most snake venoms and they are huge animals. I have read that in Brazil more cattle are killed by snakebites than by Jaguar attacks.
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Re: Puppy vs Puff adder

Postby Boadicea » Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:22 pm

About two years ago my then 12 year old Maltese poodle took one on the nose from a baby western diamondback. I had put her outside but she had managed to sneak indoors unbeknownst to me. I had a tub with a baby rattler in it on the floor of the snake room. While my back was turned she walked in and just had to see what was in the tub :roll: Guilt stricken I rushed her to the vet praying to God and all his angels that she would survive. The envenomation took about three hours to become evident. Just when I was beginning to think it was a dry bite the vet told me he could see signs of bruising on her neck and my heart sank.They had her on a drip and I think they also gave her cortisone and painkillers. She survived much to my surprise. A couple of days later I took her home and she is still a cherished member of my family today. The bruising went all the way down the front of her chest but when it cleared up she showed no further ill effects. When I researched the thing later on the internet I did find one or two articles that suggested that dogs are more resistant to rattlesnake venom than humans are.
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Re: Puppy vs Puff adder

Postby Boadicea » Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:34 pm

I forgot to add: Well done Thea! I am really really glad that the little dog survived. If I may ask what was the thinking behind warming the drip? Was it just to make it easier for the dog's body to handle or was it for some other reason?
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Re: Puppy vs Puff adder

Postby fuscusV2 » Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:45 pm

Boadicea wrote:I forgot to add: Well done Thea! I am really really glad that the little dog survived. If I may ask what was the thinking behind warming the drip? Was it just to make it easier for the dog's body to handle or was it for some other reason?

It's a staffie man, they're from the UK and we all know they like their brew warm heh.
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Re: Puppy vs Puff adder

Postby swazi » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:18 am

Boadicea it is very uncomfortable and painful when injecting a cold liquid, and it drops the core temperature.
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Re: Puppy vs Puff adder

Postby Boadicea » Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:25 pm

Thanks Swazi, the next time a vet has to put one of my animals on a drip (God forbid!) I shall take the vet's head off if he doesn't warm it first. They apparently never do in my observation.
"You and I wear the dangerous looseness of doom and find it becoming. Life, for eternal us, is now; and now is much too busy being a little more than everything to seem anything, catastrophic included"- e e cummings
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Re: Puppy vs Puff adder

Postby shneaky » Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:05 am

A very interesting story to read, and better yet - it has a happy ending!!!

Thanks to all for sharing. It's a pity I can't use this for my thesis for my masters degree!
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Re: Puppy vs Puff adder

Postby fuscusV2 » Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:29 am

Leonvdm wrote:Hi All,

My staffie was bitten exactly 24 hours ago by a Puff Adder. There arethree bites. We managed to get antivenom, cortisone and pennisilin via a drip into her within an hour and 30 min. The bites are on her foot, chest and back. While she had a VERY painfull night, she now seems much better. She is very swollen, but has eaten and has started moving around.

My question is, having survived for 24 hours, do you think she is now in the 'Safe Zone?

My wife and I have not been blessed with 'real' children, so this animal is like a family member to us. We are VERY concerned and would appreciate any comments.

Thank you.

Leon, any news here?
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Re: Puppy vs Puff adder

Postby swazi » Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:54 pm

Shneaky why not? There is so much left to learn! Just read this debate and you will see how passionate people are about this subject. A member on this forum, a friend, tutor and role model and I, beg to differ.

You see, many people who debate this subject don't always understand or even comprehend how it feels to stand by and watch someone die because of either ignorance or lack equipment and/or antivenom. In the perfect world us "Swazi's" would have shelves of SAVP antivenom, ventilators and staff who give a damn. The reasons for death (i.e failure of antivenom or basic ability) are numerous, every case is unique and depends on so many factors that no matter how many papers you refer to, life throws a curve ball. Blah, blah blah....we all know what is wrong with the system...heard it all before....but does anyone have a solution? I am personally so tired of people who give a damn for about 5 minutes, I could just scream.

I Advocate tourniquets!!!! - many or even most doctors will shiver at the mere mention, but when it takes 3 hours to get to a clinic what choice do you have? Life or limb...I know what my choice would be - doctors can, mostly, deal with the complications of a tourniquet but how many know how to deal with snakebite?

A mamba bite....15 minutes before respiratory paralysis set in. The only drug available is "not the drug of choice". 8 vials and a few days later, the young man joins his family. Who gives a (sh...) hoot how many papers are referred to?

Unless you have something positive to contribute, shut up.
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