Penance

This section will help you get first aid treatment protocols incase of an envenomation. This includes indigenous and exotic reptiles. Please do not use this forum for photo sharing, etc.

Penance

Postby Boadicea » Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:30 pm

Don't know if this belongs here. The mods can move it if not. I have decided to tell my story as a penance for freaking my family out - including my seventy one year old mother. Early Friday evening I took a hit in my arm near the elbow from a Crotalus durissus durissi\us (aka neo-tropical rattler, aka cascabel) while I was feeding them. One fang got me. It was my own fault of course.

The cage is front opening - my first mistake - and I stood at a respectful distance and lobbed in some food which he took. Thinking he was preoccupied with his dinner, I did not properly close the sliding glass door on his side of the tank before opening slightly the door on the other side of the same tank to throw in some food for his missus -my second mistake. Next thing I felt a bump on my arm and realised with horror that he had bitten me. Of all the snakes in my collection to be bitten by it had to be this one! I never saw his dirty deed at all he was so fast. By the time I looked at the perp he was sitting smugly in his tank looking back at me. Turns out my distance was not respectful enough - my third mistake.

Although I have previously checked out what their venom does - it is a charming cocktail of cytotoxin, haemotoxin and neurotoxin - I did not know what to expect. I was contemplating driving myself to the hospital which is only five minutes away but I did not know when or how badly I would start to show signs of envenomation which could include respiratory difficulties. So I called my mother who lives five minutes away to come get me to the hospital. Then I phoned BV.

I knew that if I had been envenomated my chances weren't good so the adrenalin was pumping like crazy. The emergency room people were very casual. I had to do the admin stuff and wait for ten minutes to see the doctor. I suppose if a person calmly walks up to the reception desk and says they have been bitten by a rattlesnake instead of screamining and groaning and waving their arms about it doesn't count as a real emergency.

On the way to the hospital BV asked me if my arm was sore and I said no I felt no pain. I knew there was some hope when he told me that it usually starts burning like crazy soon after the bite. BV said it was the haemotoxin that was the one to worry about. He was a pillar of strength and I made sure that he spoke to the doctor on the phone because of course the reaction to my tale of woe was "I don't know what to do, we don't have rattlesnakes in this country!" How unusual - an emergency medicine doctor not knowing how to deal with an emergency. :smt021 Just like the nurseryman who doesn't know what a morus alba or a sambucus nigra is ( I have an interest in the medicinal properties of plants) or the hardware man who can't think outside the box when it comes to wall hooks for my guitars (another interest).

The doctor at least followed BV's instructions to the letter which meant I had to have four blood tests every hour before I could go. After the first two blood test results came in more than two hours after I got there and were clear, BV suggested I'd had some luck of a particularly fornicatory nature and that I could discharge myself as it was a dry bite. I wanted to but a little complication had arisen because my blood pressure had gone up to 195/103 which is not healthy and I had made a few succinct comments about letting me go to die at home of a stroke or heart attack.

Right in the beginning I had told them I was mildly hypertensive and hadn't taken my medication because I had run out. When my blood pressure shot up and stayed there, I asked the doc for some of my blood pressure medication. He said he was not a pharmacist :smt013 at which point I had to restrain myself from leaping off the bed to throttle him and politely reminded him that he was a doctor and could therefore write a prescription for me. He suddenly remembered the hospital had a pharmacy from which my family could buy my medication - amazing! He said they'd better hurry though because the pharmacy was closing soon. By the time he gave them the script and they got there it was already closed. My brother in law very kindly drove to another hospital which hasa 24 hour pharmacy to get me the five measly tablets he had prescribed and the came back with them. The nurse made me take one and wait another twenty minutes to see if my BP came down. I think my comment about my being a health lawyer had sunk in a little by that time.

Anyway I am extremely grateful to BV for his support and for the powers that be who allowed me to see another christmas. You can all pile in now and tell me how stupid I was.
"You and I wear the dangerous looseness of doom and find it becoming. Life, for eternal us, is now; and now is much too busy being a little more than everything to seem anything, catastrophic included"- e e cummings
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Re: Penance

Postby Graeme » Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:00 pm

Guardian angel 1 - Crotalus dirissus 0

So glad you're around to tell the tale. I would have died on the spot from heart failure, as that is the last snake along with a Russels viper that I'd want to be bitten by!
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Re: Penance

Postby Daimondbck » Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:01 pm

Good thinking by calling BV, if it happened to me I would certainly call him first. Seems like the DR was a bit of an *#s, but at least he listened to BV and didn`t do his own thing with regards to the treatment. Vigilance seems to be the word when working with these critter of ours..!
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Re: Penance

Postby Boadicea » Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:15 pm

Yes BV is a real treasure to all of us. I think I might have to acquire a certain plant called guaco for my garden. Here is why -

Aqueous extracts, prepared from dried or fresh roots, stems or leaves of Mikania glomerata, a plant found in Mata Atlantica in Southeastern Brazil, were able to efficiently neutralize different toxic, pharmacological, and enzymatic effects induced by venoms from Bothrops and Crotalus snakes. Phospholipase A2 activity and the edema induced by Crotalus durissus terrificus venom were inhibited around 100 and ∼40%, respectively, although this inhibition was only partial for Bothrops venoms. The hemorrhagic activity of Bothrops venoms (Bothrops altenatus, Bothrops moojeni, Bothrops neuwiedi, and Bothrops jararacussu) was significantly inhibited by this vegetal species, while the clotting activity of Crotalus durissus terrificus, Bothrops jararacussu, and Bothrops neuwiedi venoms was totally inhibited. Although, the mechanism of action of Mikania glomerata extract is still unknown, the finding that no visible change was detected in the electrophoretic
pattern of snake venom after incubation with the extract excludes proteolytic degradation as a potential mechanism. Since the extract of Mikania glomerata significantly inhibited the studied snake venoms, it may be used as an alternative treatment to serum therapy and, in addition, as a rich source of potential inhibitors of PLA2s, metalloproteases and serineproteases, enzymes involved in several physiopathological human and animal diseases.

http://www.biovenom.net/v3/files/2005%20Mikania%20glomerata.pdf
Crotalus species are found in Brazil, so is a plant remedy for their bite. I love it!!!!!
"You and I wear the dangerous looseness of doom and find it becoming. Life, for eternal us, is now; and now is much too busy being a little more than everything to seem anything, catastrophic included"- e e cummings
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Re: Penance

Postby rolandslf » Sun Dec 12, 2010 4:14 pm

There is no need for any of us to pile in. The reason is that we know you to be a responsible keeper of Venomous who does not take unesecary chance or shows off wanton acts of bravado. I for one can clearly see that a legitimate mistake was made, and can only hope and pray that the day it happens to me, I will get off so lightly.
To those of us who think, "It won't happen to me", let this episode be a warning. Vigilance must become an iherent part of the hobby.
It is better to be Pissed Off than Pissed On.
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Re: Penance

Postby Fooble » Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:36 pm

Boadicea wrote:You can all pile in now and tell me how stupid I was.


Most people keep there bites hush hush i have heard of quite of few guys getting bitten they keep it very quiet.
Organized crime comes in more forms than one.
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Re: Penance

Postby froot » Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:20 pm

Dry bite, wooohooo! The best news you had all year and you know it's good news when you feel like a ton of anxiety has suddenly lifted off your shoulders.

Vigilance minimises your chances of being bitten, it by no means eliminates it.

I'm really happy for you Boadicae and thanks for sharing so we can all learn from it.

Way forward.... come up with another method of presenting food to your snakes?
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Of necessity, this honor is generally bestowed posthumously. - www.darwinawards.com
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Re: Penance

Postby Urucone » Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:53 pm

Every time I see or hear the stories of snake bite victims, I decide to get rid of my venomous collection, but the moment I stare into the first pair of cold eyes I fall in love all over again, But I do understand why people get tagged, Just the other day I fed my white lips, I gave the female a mouse and figured out that she will be to preoccupied to notice me and I leaned over the female to feed the male sitting in the far corner, but I could’ve got tagged easily through my own laziness, stupidity and ignorance.

Glad to hear your still with us.
as long as you keep quiet, no one will notice that your dumb
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Re: Penance

Postby Boadicea » Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:32 pm

Thanks guys for the kind comments. It's a weird feeling wondering if you are going to see the next day. As I waited at the side of the road for my mother to fetch me from my house to go to the hospital it was terrifyingly peaceful as I knew that for the next few hours and perhaps for the rest of my life everything was out of my hands. For those few moments I no longer had a say in whether I lived or died.
"You and I wear the dangerous looseness of doom and find it becoming. Life, for eternal us, is now; and now is much too busy being a little more than everything to seem anything, catastrophic included"- e e cummings
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Re: Penance

Postby TonyK » Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:45 pm

Boadicea wrote: it was terrifyingly peaceful as I knew that for the next few hours and perhaps for the rest of my life everything was out of my hands. For those few moments I no longer had a say in whether I lived or died.

I know the feeling ,when you realize that the reaper is lurking and you just come to accept that the future is out of your control,thats when the calm sets in.Thanks for sharing not many people like to admit it when accidents happen.
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Re: Penance

Postby Pythonodipsas » Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:50 pm

Boadicea I am glad you made it. Its a scary one to be bitten by.

Besides not having your blood pressure medication, 195/103 is not very mild for hypertension. Surely it was caused by your state of stress?
`
If you wanna find out what's behind these cold eyes, you'll just have to claw your way through this disguise.
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Re: Penance

Postby Bernice » Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:36 pm

:shock: :shock: :shock:

I am VERY glad that you and all your appendages are still with us Boadicea!

I agree with Urucone, you fall in love every time you look at them, and you cant but be en-awed by their perfection, but I know myself too well, and I will NEVER risk keeping hots!...

You will have to watch that snake from now on! he has a taste for you :lol:
Happiness is a fat mouse and a warm rock!

Dont fly! 4X4! The noble eagle may soar! but a weasel wont get sucked into a jet intake valve...

Some people are like a slinky spring, they make you smile when you push them down a flight of stairs!
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Re: Penance

Postby bradmiller » Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:43 pm

Close call! glad you suffered no ill affects.
You know, you can touch a stick of dynamite, but if you touch a venomous snake it’ll turn around and bite you and kill you so fast it’s not even funny.
- Steve Irwin - The Crocodile Hunter
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Re: Penance

Postby CarlaSmit87 » Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:52 pm

Your guardian angel have been working overtime! Glad you're okay!
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