Cape cobra bite - a long unbroken record broken.

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Re: Cape cobra bite - a long unbroken record broken.

Postby jka » Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:11 pm

Bite site 24 days after incident:

Image

Apparently the females dig scars :smt016
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Re: Cape cobra bite - a long unbroken record broken.

Postby yoson10 » Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:46 pm

Considering how bad necrosis some cobras can give....I think you are very lucky to just have that small scar... I have seen some cobra bites that were absolutely horrible with necrosis...as bad as any viper bite I have seen.


Is it painful when you touch it?
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Re: Cape cobra bite - a long unbroken record broken.

Postby Bushviper » Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:08 pm

I would never have expected that sort of necrosis from a local Naja bite.
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Re: Cape cobra bite - a long unbroken record broken.

Postby Blet » Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:06 pm

Tony, just glad to see you're healing well. As veterinarians we see almost identical lesions in dogs after Cape cobra bites. Necrosis at the bite site is common and often follows as much as 2-3w after the incident. Local swelling varies from absent to minimal and, as per usual, neurological symptoms, especially relating to the respiratory system and some of the cranial nerves, dominate the scene. I have seen cases where no neurological symptoms arose and where the site would swell up extensively. Often, no necrosis followed these bites!? I believe we know very little about these snakes and their venom. I've seen dogs pass away under 10min after a bite. Others develop severe neurological symptoms hours to days after a bite. Others show nothing more than local swelling. I'm convinced there is a lot more to it than say depth of fang penetration or volume of venom delivered (size of the patient must be near irrelevant in Cape cobra bites!).

By comparison, Puffadder bites swell tremendously to cartoon-like proportions. Very little scarring or necrosis follows and patients rarely pass away. If they do, it usually happens secondary to hypovolaemic shock and its effects on organ systems. Compartment syndrome, as seen in humans, is far less of a concern in dogs and cats. In Europe, however, I saw extensive necosis in Vipera berus bites (mostly distal to the elbows and stifles) and these sites took months to recover. Do not underestimate the Vipera genus!
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Re: Cape cobra bite - a long unbroken record broken.

Postby Bushbaby » Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:28 pm

Ouch, that still looks very sore.
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Re: Cape cobra bite - a long unbroken record broken.

Postby armata » Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:34 am

Thanks for that Blet - a friend of mines dog (ridgeback) was bitten in the back leg by a cape cobra and died within 10 mins.
You are also right about bites from Vipera berus, there have been some near fatal cases in recent years.

re my bite - apart from looking gross the bite site has never caused any pain, but the doc says it will take a long time to heal. Am on another course of antibiotics now and changing the dressing regularly. I am hearing more and more that local necrosis is common in cape cobra bite (other cobras?).
I was never on mechanical ventilation and was breathing normally by the afternoon of the bite. The unusual thing was renal failure - my pee looked like guiness for a while!.
But I feel very strong now, and the doc says that I have a heart of an ox, which is reassuring at my age!
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Re: Cape cobra bite - a long unbroken record broken.

Postby Bushviper » Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:54 am

armata I would have assumed that dark urine (haemoglobinuria) would be as a result of cell destruction (muscle or red blood) and not renal failure. Pity they never tested it. Strangely this can even be caused by serum sickness!
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Re: Cape cobra bite - a long unbroken record broken.

Postby Snake Charmer » Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:45 pm

Geez Tony, so glad to hear that you made a full recovery! I only got to see this now ... :smt017

Take care of yourself, OK!

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Re: Cape cobra bite - a long unbroken record broken.

Postby Mamba Man » Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:35 am

Hi Tony
Clive Reid here from the good old Durban Snake Park days.
Hope you are alright. This is my biggest fear, but , touch wood, I still have'nt been bitten.
Hope you are fully recovered by now.
I have just learnt how to send a message on SA Reptiles, you might hear more from me in the future.
All the best
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Re: Cape cobra bite - a long unbroken record broken.

Postby armata » Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:33 pm

Goodness Clive, how long as it been? - 25+ years?
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Re: Cape cobra bite - a long unbroken record broken.

Postby yoson10 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:28 pm

Bushviper wrote:I would never have expected that sort of necrosis from a local Naja bite.


Really?? Thats interesting. Some cobras( non spitting) in Asia cause really bad necrosis...as bad as any viper. Egyptian and Capes don't usually cause necrosis?
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Re: Cape cobra bite - a long unbroken record broken.

Postby Mamba Man » Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:55 pm

Hi Tony, Clive Reid here, yes it has been that long, and I hope you dont mind but I tell people you were my tutor, as you were. I still see Graham and Johan from time to time, I once bumped into Richard when I was doing a week-end show in Komatipoort. Fritz is in the Pretoria area, I have been meaning to see him for some time now and will try see him in the near future. I am in Joburg, let me know where you are.
All the best and speedy recovery.
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Re: Cape cobra bite - a long unbroken record broken.

Postby armata » Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:44 pm

Hi Clive.
I'm in the Klein Karoo Oudtshoorn. Believe it or not Andrew Davies is just up the road in Ladismith, works on a game farm.
Fritz runs a bookshop now I hear.
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Re: Cape cobra bite - a long unbroken record broken.

Postby Puff the Magic Adder » Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:11 pm

armata I would have assumed that dark urine (haemoglobinuria) would be as a result of cell destruction (muscle or red blood) and not renal failure. Pity they never tested it. Strangely this can even be caused by serum sickness!


Given the amount of necrosis from this bite, is it possible that there was enough haemoglobin released to have caused extensive renal damage if not renal failure, or is a lot more needed for that (e.g. Puff Adder)?

Egyptian and Capes don't usually cause necrosis?

As far as I know, most non-spitting cobras still have enough cytotoxin in their venom to cause some degree of necrotic activity, even if it very small (by comparison). I think a lot depends on the individual snake and how much venom it manages to inject - I reckon Tony probably got quite a big dose of venom here.

Cobra venom seems to be unusually fast acting compared to other neurotoxic snakes.... .....Not sure about Mambas.

The Black Mamba's venom can be very fast acting, potentially faster even than a Cape Cobra - all depending on individual circumstances of course. The Green Mamba much less so. I don't know much about the other 2 (Jameson's and Western Green).
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Re: Cape cobra bite - a long unbroken record broken.

Postby Mamba Man » Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:16 am

Wow Tony, I was just in your area of the woods, my daughter was playing in an inter provincial baseball tornament in George, so sorry I am only getting this info now. We went ostridge riding in Oudtshoorn just 2 weeks ago.
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