Infuscatus bite

This section will help you get first aid treatment protocols incase of an envenomation. This includes indigenous and exotic reptiles. Please do not use this forum for photo sharing, etc.

Infuscatus bite

Postby Bushbaby » Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:24 pm

Hi there

I've not been very active on the forum much of late, but thought I would share my experience with you.

On Thursday evening I was feeding my snakes, and because I've been sporting a back injury I cannot bend or sit for too long without my back acting up. Hence I was trying to "quickly" feed. HUGE mistake! My first Coral snake tub I got too, instead of taking out the tub like I usually do, I just decided to scan where the snake was and pop open one side of the lid and then throw the food item inside.

I made the mistake of assumption, and the snake had turned towards the corner where I was opening instead of to the back of the tub as I thought she was and bit me on my finger. I got a HUGE fright! Manage to secure the snake back in her tub and pushed it back into the rack. I waited a few miliseconds, staring at the blood forming on my finger, and then started getting a burning sensation on the one puncture wound. I knew she got some venom in me. Luckily I know that these snakes are not lethal, but not knowing how I would react to the venom was the scariest.

I rushed inside, squeezing my finger, hoping that most of the venom would get out (don't know if it helped) and ran my finger under some luke warm water. Now I just had to wait & see what happens further.

I had a slight tingle in my mouth, but my throat was not closing up or anything insane like that. Besides some swelling, and pain up to my wrist, the only serious symptom I experienced was a stabbing pain in the chest everytime I was walking or standing. When I was sitting or lying down I was perfectly fine. Has anyone ever experienced anything like that before? My finger was throbbing like crazy, but other than that I seemed okay. I took an anti-histamine in anycase.

By Friday I didn't have the stabbing pains anymore, and my hand was not sore anymore. My finger tip was a bit swollen and red. It is still a bit swollen and a little less red today.

Moral of the story is there in no such thing as quickly feeding and I should take more time with the semi-venomous snakes.
http://www.snakebiteassist.co.za
http://www.reptileexpo.co.za
http://www.boaconstrictors.co.za
User avatar
Bushbaby
SA Reptiles Admin
 
Posts: 10591
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 8:04 am
Location: Pretoria

Re: Infuscatus bite

Postby Ales » Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:28 pm

At least you ok.

Was the snake being defensive or was it a feeding response? maybe he smelt the mouse but saw your finger?
What a world....
Ales
SA Reptiles Member
 
Posts: 488
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:12 pm
Location: Joburg

Re: Infuscatus bite

Postby BOOGY » Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:18 pm

Net bly jy is O.K. Ons leer almal weer om versigtig te wees. Thanks for shareing!
Reptile Roulette - JUST SAY NO!
Burger Loots
User avatar
BOOGY
SA Reptiles Member
 
Posts: 696
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Whiteriver

Re: Infuscatus bite

Postby Bushbaby » Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:31 pm

Thanks.

Ales, I dont think it was either. I am sure it was not a feeding strike as they tend to hold onto their food. I did finish feeding - with tweezers!
http://www.snakebiteassist.co.za
http://www.reptileexpo.co.za
http://www.boaconstrictors.co.za
User avatar
Bushbaby
SA Reptiles Admin
 
Posts: 10591
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 8:04 am
Location: Pretoria

Re: Infuscatus bite

Postby froot » Sat Apr 23, 2011 8:38 pm

Could you back troubles not have complicated the symptoms somewhat? Glad you're ok, of all the species you have there to get nailed by, that was a better 'choice'.
We salute the improvement of the human genome by honoring those who remove themselves from it.
Of necessity, this honor is generally bestowed posthumously. - www.darwinawards.com
User avatar
froot
Founder Member
 
Posts: 6901
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 8:19 am
Location: Joburg, South Africa

Re: Infuscatus bite

Postby Pythonodipsas » Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:59 am

Shew Heidi...Im very glad to hear you're ok! At least you didn't have a bad allergic reaction.

I'm intrigued by the stabbing chest pains...do you think they were heart pains? Were you panicky (like I would be)? Maybe a referred nerve pain from your back problem?

I know blood pressure is raised when standing upright and lower when lying down, so maybe with the shock and whatever you're blood pressure was high. Although, as you know, many snake envenomations can lower blood pressure, sometimes dangerously. So it leaves me wondering what caused the pains.
`
If you wanna find out what's behind these cold eyes, you'll just have to claw your way through this disguise.
Roger Waters & David Gilmour - 1979
User avatar
Pythonodipsas
SAReptiles Techie
 
Posts: 3166
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 1:32 pm
Location: Ramsgate, KZN

Re: Infuscatus bite

Postby WW » Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:26 am

Glad you are OK, Heidi. It's not supposed to be all that dangerous a species, but I would not offer to act as a guinea pig!

How big was that snake that got you?
patience n. the vice of accepting the unacceptable, thereby encouraging further occurrences
WW
SA Reptiles Member
 
Posts: 525
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:21 pm

Re: Infuscatus bite

Postby yoson10 » Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:50 pm

Do coral cobras have venom like other cobras?? Sorry I am not at all familiar with these snakes...Thanks
yoson10
SA Reptiles Member
 
Posts: 200
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:40 pm

Re: Infuscatus bite

Postby Bushbaby » Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:20 pm

yoson10, they do have a neurotoxic venom, but are not classified as lethal.

WW, it was a 2 year old female, ranging at an estimated 30cm. It may have been one you got photos of when you were visiting last time. lol

Pythonadipsas, Yeah, it was strange. Not sure it was my heart as it was on the right hand side of my chest. It was about an hour after the bite, so it was not stress/shock related. By that time I thought I was over the worst. It may have been muscular as I had a pain moving down my arm. It's difficult to describe. It still feels like I have a bit of "tightness" in the area where I had the stabbing pain as well. It really did confuse me, but either way, it made me realise that I should not get bitten again.

Yeah Froot, I am a lot more careful around our potentially deadly snakes.
http://www.snakebiteassist.co.za
http://www.reptileexpo.co.za
http://www.boaconstrictors.co.za
User avatar
Bushbaby
SA Reptiles Admin
 
Posts: 10591
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 8:04 am
Location: Pretoria

Re: Infuscatus bite

Postby vuduman » Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:28 am

Hi Bushbaby.Glad you are doing OK,and that it wasn't something worse..
I got bitten once by a cape coral snake as a feeding response.It rushed out from under the paper and got a good bite-even hung on for a bit.
After a few minutes of burning,it swelled a bit.The next day I experienced shortness of breath and sleepiness.
But by the third day I was healthy as a horse again. I am allergic to neurotoxic venom.

I added a few dry crystals of green mamba venom to about 3ml of my own blood as an experiment to see if it will coagulate. Well,in about 5minutes the blood turned to a solid clump of jelly.
To my knowledge-it's only suppose to coagulate with cytotoxic venoms. My point is,maybe the Coral snake also has particles in the venom that can make blood coagulate like that instead of thinning it? Or has it got something to do with the fact that I am allergic?
vuduman
SA Reptiles Member
 
Posts: 745
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:51 pm
Location: Durban

Re: Infuscatus bite

Postby Jen » Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:23 am

Wow Heidi – I’m glad to hear that you’re on the mend. It must have been a pretty awful experience. I’m also intrigued by your chest pain. Unfortunately as you know there is so little information on Coral’s venom so we really don’t know all of its effects. Out of interest, please answer the following: How long did it last? What sort of pain was it? Where exactly in your chest? It was referred down your arm – did it radiate anywhere else? Did anything else make it worse, besides changing position? Did you have any associated symptoms, like shortness of breath / palpitations / dizziness etc?
Thanks for sharing your story – it helps us all to learn. Hope you are 100% soon!
1.1.0 Epicrates cenchria cenchria
1.1.0 Corallus hortulanus
1.1.0 Heterodon nasicus
1.1.0 Trimeresurus puniceus
2.2.0 Trimeresurus albolabris
User avatar
Jen
SA Reptiles Member
 
Posts: 294
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2009 6:53 pm
Location: Westville, KZN

Re: Infuscatus bite

Postby WW » Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:22 am

One comment: I would be careful about assumptions about Aspidelaps not being lethal, or statements to that effect in the literature. Any venom is lethal if injected in sufficient amounts for the person concerened. Aspidelaps very rarely seem to manage to inject enough, but if you happen to be fairly sensitive and you happen to get a large amount, things could get very unpleasant. Big infuscatus (or, more correctly, cowlesi, as they are now) can certainly inject substantial amounts. Since they are close cobra relatives, I would advise great caution.
patience n. the vice of accepting the unacceptable, thereby encouraging further occurrences
WW
SA Reptiles Member
 
Posts: 525
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:21 pm

Re: Infuscatus bite

Postby Bushviper » Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:02 am

Vuduman if you are allergic to venom it is seldom that it would just include neurotoxins because venoms are a cocktail of various components and not just a single toxin. You are probably allergic to all snake bites.

Green mamba venom causing the coagulation of blood is very unusual. I have found most South African venoms will stop the blood from coagulating. I have never tested green mamba though.

Puff adders (cyto and haemotoxins) will stop the blood from coagulating and leave it looking like water.
It is easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.

Those who are afraid to ask are ashamed of learning.
User avatar
Bushviper
Founder Member
 
Posts: 17358
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:02 am
Location: Pretoria

Re: Infuscatus bite

Postby Bushbaby » Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:25 am

Jen wrote:Wow Heidi – I’m glad to hear that you’re on the mend. It must have been a pretty awful experience. I’m also intrigued by your chest pain. Unfortunately as you know there is so little information on Coral’s venom so we really don’t know all of its effects. Out of interest, please answer the following: How long did it last? What sort of pain was it? Where exactly in your chest? It was referred down your arm – did it radiate anywhere else? Did anything else make it worse, besides changing position? Did you have any associated symptoms, like shortness of breath / palpitations / dizziness etc?
Thanks for sharing your story – it helps us all to learn. Hope you are 100% soon!


Thanks Jen, besides for a little bit of redness on my finger and a puncture hole, my finger is almost 100% mended. Still hurts a little at a certain point on my finger, but all in all, a lot better than a few days ago.

To answer your questions. Not sure if this will make sense, but I will try describe the positioning of the pain. If you had to draw a line from the bottom of your (my) sternum, to my right armpit, the pain was about 2 thirds towards the bottom of the sternum, in line with the supposed line. I did not have any dizziness, shortness of breath, palpitations, or anything like that. The pains came in short bursts that lasted about 5 - 10 seconds. At first they were in close succession, and then became less over the next hour. As I said previously, when I was sitting or lying down, there were no pains.

The pain radiating from my finger up my arm was not at the same time as the pain in my chest, and if memory serves me well was only after the chest pains.

WW wrote:One comment: I would be careful about assumptions about Aspidelaps not being lethal, or statements to that effect in the literature. Any venom is lethal if injected in sufficient amounts for the person concerned. Aspidelaps very rarely seem to manage to inject enough, but if you happen to be fairly sensitive and you happen to get a large amount, things could get very unpleasant. Big infuscatus (or, more correctly, cowlesi, as they are now) can certainly inject substantial amounts. Since they are close cobra relatives, I would advise great caution.


That is true. Cowlesi have been recorded to have killed people in Namibia, but these were children and it was a massive snake (info from BV). I know I should be more careful and will be in future, thanks for reminding me.

I will update the sticker on the cage which still says infuscatus, so that I can hardwire cowlesi into my brain. Old habits die hard.

Vuduman, thanks, and I would suggest you start keeping goldfish :p
http://www.snakebiteassist.co.za
http://www.reptileexpo.co.za
http://www.boaconstrictors.co.za
User avatar
Bushbaby
SA Reptiles Admin
 
Posts: 10591
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 8:04 am
Location: Pretoria

Re: Infuscatus bite

Postby WW » Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:35 am

Bushviper wrote:Green mamba venom causing the coagulation of blood is very unusual. I have found most South African venoms will stop the blood from coagulating. I have never tested green mamba though.

Puff adders (cyto and haemotoxins) will stop the blood from coagulating and leave it looking like water.


Actually, most snake venoms that affect blood coagulation are PROcoagulant and cause bloood clotting! What happens is that the venoms trigger blood coagulation in the vascular system. Dissolved fibrinogen in the blood is converted to insoluble, fibrous fibrin, forming small microthrombi (microclots), which are then eliminated by the body, usually without causing damage. However, this uses up all the clotting factors in the blood, and the blood is then incoagulable. This is what happens in human bite victims, where the volume of blood is very large compared to the amount of venom injected. So the paradox is that a PROcoagulant venom results in non-clotting blood! However, if you add a drop of venom to a small sample of blood (as described by vuduman), then you do indeed get a blob of jelly. All this applies to a whole bunch of "haemorrhagic" venoms, including boomslang, Echis, Bothrops etc.
patience n. the vice of accepting the unacceptable, thereby encouraging further occurrences
WW
SA Reptiles Member
 
Posts: 525
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:21 pm

Next

Return to Venom Club

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron