NSPCA cracks me up

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NSPCA cracks me up

Postby cvanvollenstee » Thu May 12, 2011 2:32 pm

I don't know if this has been posted here but here is the NSPCA trying to give their two cents worth on the exotic pet industry.

http://www.nspca.co.za/page.aspx?Id=159&CateId=20&Category=Wildlife&SubCateId=159&SubCategory=Exotic+Pets
1. Green Iguana Male called Sarel See Monster
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Re: NSPCA cracks me up

Postby Rodwraylva » Thu May 12, 2011 3:09 pm

That is sad! Then they should ban domestic dogs as well, because there are just a handful which can be said to be South African breeds! And all the pets we keep, because there are none which are truly indigenous. And that also states that the NSPCA is uninformed in a way. And on the last part: live feeding, kind of hard feeding some snakes dead food since some do not take it. There should be exceptions on every law, to make living easier for everybody. And you expect that the person buying the pet did his research about its habits.
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Re: NSPCA cracks me up

Postby Ales » Thu May 12, 2011 3:23 pm

"But the snake was in fact a Florida Water Moccasin and there was no water in the tank. Additionally, these snakes are fish eaters. They may eat the occasional frog but it was slowly starving to death as it was being offered the wrong type of food altogether. It had been assumed that all snakes eat rats and mice."

Oh really they don't eat rats and mice?

Bunch of Idiots.
What a world....
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Re: NSPCA cracks me up

Postby Psychogav » Thu May 12, 2011 3:29 pm

The SPCA kills thousands of animals every year, Their quick fix to any situation.
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Re: NSPCA cracks me up

Postby iiviii » Thu May 12, 2011 3:41 pm

Stop me if I am wrong, but aren't there more deaths in South Africa (or the world) because of dog bites and drunken driving? These people should spend more time learning than giving people grief for having reptiles as at times they have absolutely no clue what they are doing (this is aimed specifically at a certain SPCA in the buffalo city area that i witnessed them attempting to put down more than a handful of dogs due to "biliary" where both myself and two other people could see that it definitely was not biliary)

But the part i find funny is that they contradict themselves : ("It is an offence in terms of the Animals Protection Act No 71 of 1962. If you hear or know of anyone putting live animals in with captive snakes as “food”, then please report it to your local SPCA. It is not necessary to do this. Snakes will take pre-killed prey. There is a technique to it but it works. The lazy, cruel and “quick-fix” uncaring method of using live animals is unacceptable.") Does this mean that we are allowed to kill live food and feed it to reptiles? How is this any different than giving it live to a snake?

Personally I only feed dead food to my snakes, and if they aren't already when I buy them then I go through the effort of getting them onto dead prey.

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Re: NSPCA cracks me up

Postby charl.dbn » Thu May 12, 2011 4:06 pm

Sigh...They don't eat rats and mice?????lol... Certain cats and dogs are exotics but where is the fuss about that??
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Re: NSPCA cracks me up

Postby Spider » Thu May 12, 2011 4:41 pm

I would consider a pitbull more dangerous than your average snake so why not ban them?
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Re: NSPCA cracks me up

Postby bubblesharp » Thu May 12, 2011 4:51 pm

Hi iiviii,

To my knowledge the law states that no animals may be put in a situation where they can fight or one can harm the other, the reason is it's "cruel" an "inhumane" to do so, is that the mouse suffers during the ordeal, a while back I did feed mice live to my one rat snake, and he is not picky whether they are dead or almost dead he will still eat them, so he will eat them alive as long as they do not struggle too much, (yes he did not kill all of them before eating, just gave them a hug and ...) I could still see them breathing etc at some occasions. This is the reason I stopped feeding live mice/rats, he is now eating rats and I am sure you can understand how dangerous a rat can be to a snake. Also what would have happened if my snake was bitten in the mouth by a mouse? I am glad that nothing ever happened though.

I still buy live mice/rats to feed all my snakes however they are fed freshly killed. I start of with the small snakes and as some of them does not always want to eat, the big rat snake will get the fuzzys as a treat, one mouse for the black rat snake, and if she doesn't eat well the yellow rat will get 2/3 mice instead of rats that week, I also believe that this way he does not get too much fat every time he eats, anything from a couple of fuzzys and 2/3 mice to 2 small rats. He eats like there is no tomorrow. By feeding all my snakes in this manner I only had too keep the rats/mice alive in a tank till the next feeding that was not killed and fed to the snakes.

You are supposed to kill the mice/rats before feeding them to your snakes, and yes there should be exceptions. as some snakes will not take even freshly killed pray. But you still have to feed the snake, because the same law stipulates that if an animal is left to starve it is cruel and you can be prosecuted for it, so in some cases you will have to choose which law to brake, because in this situation it is just impossible to keep them happy.

Remember that when you do kill mice/rats it should be done in a "humane" manner. (Killing, Humane, same sentence???) well technically they don't call it killing, it is euthanizing so its humane. (whatever) You have to suffocate them with co2, if done correctly they will pass out before they know what is going on, and die in their sleep. Believe me there are no suffering, I have passed out once of too high co2 levels in my blood, it kinda feels nice and tingly and then gone. so I will agree with them that at least there is no suffering involved.

The fact stands that this is a long ongoing debate that will never stop and although some people does not like feeding freshly killed or frozen/thawed mice/rats, the debate no matter how good your argument and whether or not people agree, it is still against the law. I cannot go driving at 250km on a stretch of road in the Karoo, just because I can see 100km in front of me, there are no bends in the road and no other cars in sight. Oh and then a car that can handle the speed safely and with the braking power to get back to 0 in a few seconds. It will still be against the law, no matter what my argument is.

However you choose to feed your animals, just please make sure that they are safe, its all I have to add.

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Re: NSPCA cracks me up

Postby Mehelya » Fri May 13, 2011 9:49 am

Wouldn't it be fair then, if when feeding live prey, that the prey item is given a chance of escape? I know this is a bit on the extremely dangerous side, especially for the venom keepers... I remember talking to one of the local SPCA headwigs, and we came to the conclusion that if the prey item is given equal opportunity to escape (50/50 chance of escape vs crunchie munchie), then it would be the same as in nature, and should be allowed, but unfortunately, the laws ARE different.

I am not allowed to hit my dog in reprimand for bad behaviour, or heaven forbid, kick it, lest I get taken to court for animal cruelty (not that I ever would!)... But I can kill every last reptile I see, because I am ignorant. And I will be lauded as a hero by my community for being brave, and saving people from being bitten and killed by the monstrosity... I might even get a spot in the local paper! I cannot feed my reptile live prey, but I can watch my dog or cat kill any animal that it has just caught, and it's ok, even though it is still alive, hurt, and in serious pain. I can even have a good chuckle as my cat slowly toys with and painfully kills any animal that it has just brought in... Because it's cute, fun, and natural... I can get a permit to slaughter any animal for a ceremony (cattle, goats, sheep), in my back yard, and it's ok, even though I will probably just slit it's throat, and let it bleed to death, slowly, but it's ok, because I have a permit to do it...

At the end of the day, you cannot please everyone. If you try to please one person, the next person WILL be unhappy. Yes, the SPCA's quick solution to overpopulation is euthanasia, but aren't we, as the general public, partly to blame for that problem? If we didn't impulse buy so many animals, and have them spayed, and do our homework before buying, there would be a lot less animals to euthanise at the end of the day, and a lot more happy animals as well. How many people have bought pythons when they are small and "cute", only to go home, then do the research after purchasing, and realise that the "cute little snake" will end up at about 18 feet, and be able to do some serious damage in several regards. OR they find out the hard way, once it has reached that size...

"All reptiles carry Salmonella..."... Really? I thought I medicated my reptiles, and cleaned their cages, to prevent that type of cross-contamination/infection? Erm... What about ringworm from my dog? Tick bite fever? Rabies? There are some potentially nasty diseases and worms that you can get from canines!When was the last time anyone really brushed their dog's teeth, and checked what they were eating while you were away, before letting them lick you all over the face? My child came home with chicken pox from school, we better ban her for life/euthanise her, or I might get it when I give her a kiss goodnight! Hepatitis B and C can survive outside the human body for up to 2 weeks, or longer. HIV-1 can survive for several minutes in contact with the air, but we aren't supposed to stereotype against the people who have them? We as humans carry some seriously more infectious and dangerous viruses and bacteria, some living permanently within us, than salmonella...

Just my two cents, before the caffeine kicks in. One of the debates than will unfortunately never have a happy solution for everyone.

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Re: NSPCA cracks me up

Postby Whitelipp » Fri May 13, 2011 11:01 am

If we go back to the “Are you killing your child” issue, ANIMALS IN FOCUS pointed out that per reptiles can be harmful to human health. All reptiles carry Salmonella. 93 000 people in the USA contract Salmonella bacteria infections annually from direct contact with a pet reptile or from contact with contaminated household surfaces. The there are the reported 20 deaths annually resulting from reptile-related Salmonellosis.

Then tell these people to stop licking their reptiles!
Dont bite, strike!!!!

Dont keep it real, keep it EXOTIC!!!
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Re: NSPCA cracks me up

Postby TonyK » Fri May 13, 2011 11:24 am

I did read a report that found that aquatic turtles were the group of reptiles responsible for the salmonella infections in pet owners.In light of the fact that turtles do not form a part of the reptile hobby in South Africa the whole argument becomes a bit stupid .
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Re: NSPCA cracks me up

Postby Rodwraylva » Fri May 13, 2011 11:49 am

bubblesharp wrote:
Remember that when you do kill mice/rats it should be done in a "humane" manner. (Killing, Humane, same sentence???) well technically they don't call it killing, it is euthanizing so its humane. (whatever) You have to suffocate them with co2, if done correctly they will pass out before they know what is going on, and die in their sleep. Believe me there are no suffering, I have passed out once of too high co2 levels in my blood, it kinda feels nice and tingly and then gone. so I will agree with them that at least there is no suffering involved.

Cheers


Still, it is considered killing in terms of food for reptiles, and bam ILLEGAL!!!! And as someone stated, if any other pet does so it is considered normal. Something is seriously wrong!

Hope that this can be seen by the SPCA. If exotic reptiles is said to be better illegal than legal I think they should be told that no pet kept in South Africa, apart from a few animal species, are exotic, because all dogs, cats, hamsters, rats, etc. are from some odd country in some other continent and in effect should also be banned then, and since getting licences for wild caught animals is practically impossible in all provinces but KZN, none of the South African public could actually be allowed to keep any pets. Any disagreements are welcome.
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Re: NSPCA cracks me up

Postby shapeshifter » Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:24 pm

It just goes to show, that once again the minority of the population gets forced into a corner because some other peoples stupid mistakes. Wouldn't the 1ste step be to educate the people, and force pet shop owners to hand out info with every exotic pet it sells? It only seems logical. Now the rest of us breeders who take good care of our pets must suffer.
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Re: NSPCA cracks me up

Postby Rodwraylva » Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:10 pm

You get people who does everything by the book, and then that 3% which does what they know they should not, I agree 100%. And yes would be good if you could have all the needed info given with purchase. Like my Venus Fly Trap (carnivorous plant for those who wondered :D) You get a mini essay saying how to keep it.
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Re: NSPCA cracks me up

Postby Rob Macmillan » Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:49 am

This will still be an ongoing struggle and debate between us and animal rights groups until we go blue in the face. At the end of the day it is up to every owner of an exotic animal (including dogs and cats) to ensure proper care is taken of themselves and there animals. The NSPCA makes judgement on a minority of people without a proper survey. This gets the debates on and gets everyone into a corner for a fight. My opinion would be for every reptile owner to join there local association where by we have a stronger leg to stand on i.e......Safety in numbers! The NSPCA dont have an easy job as it takes money to take care of the homeless animals they aquire, but in the same hand, its also not easy for the owner of over a hundred reptiles either. Im sure i speak for alot of us when i say we love animals no matter what they are...... This isnt a cash crop, this a passion!
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