Leopard tortoise subspecies??

[Ales]

Hello guys

I heard lately that the leopard tortoises we see in the centre and the south of South Africa and the ones From Zimbabwe ,Botswana...in the north of Southern africa are actually quite different,apparently they are different subspecies?

Ive heard that the hatchlings from one location are more dotted on the shells and the others are plain,and that the leopard tortoises from the north get bigger??
And something that i've noticed is that when leopard tortoises from the south get big(60+cm) they still have some light patterns on their shells,whereas the northern ones get plain brown all around?

I was on some american sites and when they talk about breeding leopard tortoises they always give advice to make sure the pair are of the same subspecies.
I have a pair of leopard tortoises,the female came from an area just below the border of Zimbabwe,the person that i got her from told me that,and my male comes from the Free State.For some reason all the eggs my female lays are always infertile,no matter how many times they mate?

Are there actually subspecies,how different are they and can they breed with each other?

Thanks

[Bushviper]

Ales it is possible that you have two subspecies there. The southern ones (Pardalis) are more sought after because they can tolerate colder winters, grow bigger and are even referred to as "blonds" on many websites.

[Giacomo]

Hallo,
which size(weight)are your male and your female?If they are not big enough,mating will not lead to fertile eggs.

About the subspecie:the bigger forms of G.Pardalis ssp are the giants from Somalia and from Ethiopia.There are also huge pardalis babcocki there!
It's not hard to tell if they are Pardalis pardalis or pardalis babcocki,but it's harder to tell the exact origin.

[Ales]

Thanks Giacomo

I don't know the weight of them but the female is about 35cm shell,is that big enough?
The eggs she lays are not too small to be fertile.

Giacomo:where in Europe are you from?if i may ask?

[Giacomo]

I live in Italy.
I was asking because the subspecies and the giant form can hybridate each other.
But I think that if your eggs are not fertile,the female is probably at her first deposition or,probably,the male is to small and not mature.I think that 35cm of plastron lenght is ok,she should be very heavy like 10-12kg and for sure she is mature to lay eggs,that's why I think the problemshould be a male due to either being too smal or low in fertility,but we need to know the exact plastron lenght or weight for them to find out.

[Ales]

Hey Giacomo.

I dont know weights but the females plastron length is 37cm and the males is 31cm.

This is her second clutch she has given me,i only got her about 2 years ago.
The first clutch had 7 eggs,they were all infertile and all different sizes.
Her second clutch she laid about 2 months ago,3 eggs,one big,one medium,and one very small.I highly doubt these are fertile.

Do you know what size females start producing fertile eggs?

PS:Im also Italiano,im from Ovada,near Genova

Thanks

[Gordvisr]

how do you measure if the eggs is fertile or not ? wherever she lays the eggs ( if dugged ) just let them be, give them approx a year after that and monitor the area.