And another exotic bite.

This section will help you get first aid treatment protocols incase of an envenomation. This includes indigenous and exotic reptiles. Please do not use this forum for photo sharing, etc.

And another exotic bite.

Postby Bushviper » Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:42 pm

It was brought to my attention that somebody who is no longer a member of this forum, was bitten by an Echis (Saw scaled viper) of unknown species but believed to be colloratus. The victim then decided to phone a friend who has been bitten by numerous snakes and is thus an expert. I was led to believe that the advice he was given was "wait two hours and if nothing happens you will be okay".

Echis antivenom is made in South Africa and could have been sent to Durban if the bite had been reported to the right people before 4 o clock in the afternoon as the centre is closed now.

If you want to keep venomous snakes please research what the effects of the venom will be.

Most Echis venoms are strong haemotoxins and can take hours or even days to develop visual signs which are bleeding and the degree is related to hemoglobin level, platelet and white blood cell counts, blood urea and proteinuria. Even if you cannot see the effects, baseline clotting test should be initiated to monitor the progression of the envenomation.

Infusion of fresh frozen plasma on admission does not appear to be effective in preventing complications, so the hospital cannot really do much for you if you dont have the antivenom.

Treatment on admission with a specific antiserum is associated with a shorter duration of hemostatic failure and a reduced incidence of anemia and thrombopenia.

Renal failure (loss of kidney function) is common with Echis carinatus though and in one series over a three year period 62 cases of acute renal failure were recorded. This is not a joke and could permanently impact on your quality of life. The liver will also be affected negatively which is not something that will recover on its own.

Getting the correct treatment timeously is what could mean you will survive and possibly not have organ damage which will negatively affect the rest of your life.
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Re: And another exotic bite.

Postby Fooble » Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:08 pm

Doesn't sound like fun at all.
I take it the victim was a youngster?
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Re: And another exotic bite.

Postby Bushviper » Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:15 pm

Yeah sort of. Was banned off the forum after insulting me too. The worst is I think I still have some Echis antivenom here. Nope, just checked. It has expired and has gone cloudy so its not usable.
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Re: And another exotic bite.

Postby BOOGY » Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:19 pm

Ouch I hope this guy gets help soon!!! Umm the correct help that is.
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Re: And another exotic bite.

Postby Bushviper » Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:30 pm

Yeah plus I have two beers so I am not going to be driving to the airport or giving medical advice.
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Re: And another exotic bite.

Postby Quintin » Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:47 pm

Eish.. Disaster!!!!!

Arno, what were the circumstanses of the bite? I don't know why, but something tells me that the snake may have been held behind the head for forcefeeding!! Is the guy hospitilized?

I have seen what Echis venom does to blood in a petri dish... Don't want that pumping through me!!! Hope the guy pulls through with minimal long term effects!!!

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Re: And another exotic bite.

Postby michael » Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:03 pm

Never nice to learn the hard way! If its a bad bite this guy has a rough road ahead. This should serve as a good lesson to all aspiring hot herp keepers.
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Re: And another exotic bite.

Postby imperial exotix » Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:42 pm

Sounds hectic hopes he pulls throw.I dont think the hole young genoration should be blamed for one guy's mistake even though we should stick to fangless.I get where you comeing from fooble after all most of the cases are by the younger or inexperienced people.
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Re: And another exotic bite.

Postby Fooble » Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:57 pm

imperial exotix wrote:Sounds hectic hopes he pulls throw.I dont think the hole young genoration should be blamed for one guy's mistake even though we should stick to fangless.I get where you comeing from fooble after all most of the cases are by the younger or inexperienced people.


Don't get me wrong here, i consider myself as a "younger generation" member here ;)
It's often older inexperienced and cowboy people that are bitten not the young guns IMO.
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Re: And another exotic bite.

Postby imperial exotix » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:07 am

Haha cool all that guy needed is a straw hat and a white beard ;)
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Re: And another exotic bite.

Postby zululand » Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:48 am

Seems there are more and more bites, maybe just more "public" thanks to this forum which is good to highlight the risks of keeping hots.

Is there someone that let's say as an example I buy a King Cobra I can get a write up like the one BV put up outlining the symptoms and possible treatment of a bite from the snake that can be used as a protocol in SA?

I have done my research regarding potential bites from my hots but most of the information available is from the states and doesn't necessarily apply out here.
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Re: And another exotic bite.

Postby Kev3 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:44 am

I have two numbers saved in my phone and those same two numbers are saved in my wife's phone. Let's face it that getting the correct treatment timeously especially when dealing with exotics is not necessarily even going to come from the hospital. Having the correct contact people is essential and the last thing you want to do after a bite is look for numbers... be proactive and be prepared... then pray you never have to phone them!
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Re: And another exotic bite.

Postby zululand » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:00 am

I hear you kev3. I have a couple numbers for potential CASEVAC and a protocol sheet in the snake room. I was think more on the lines of having something for the doctors to work off to prevent the wrong treatment. Would be very helpful having a concise description of potential scenarios.

As you say all we can all hope for is that it doesn't ever be necessary to use these numbers!
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Re: And another exotic bite.

Postby Quintin » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:14 am

Regarding snake bite protocol and good hot keeping practise..

I have recently finnished my studies (and taking it further) on Occupational Helalth and Safety.

I have come to realize that everything I have learnt, isn't only applicable in the workplace, but also in one's home...

ACCIDENTS DON'T JUST HAPPEN, THEY ARE CAUSED... and applying a basic methodology when entering a snake room or when working with venomouse reptiles, one could do a basic risk assesment... and ask yourself.. What can go wrong???

I try and force myself to do this, before cleaning cages etc...

Corny as this sounds, I'm certain that I can stay bite free!

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Re: And another exotic bite.

Postby Kev3 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:21 am

I agree Quintin... but also be careful, over confidence can also cause you to become complacent and it only takes a split second...
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