Bitis g.gabonica or Bitis g.rhinoceros

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Re: Bitis g.gabonica or Bitis g.rhinoceros

Postby Ruan Stander » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:03 pm

Bushviper, is Bitis arietans protected ? I never knew that ?
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Re: Bitis g.gabonica or Bitis g.rhinoceros

Postby Puffer » Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:08 am

Sorry for the late reply I was only recently notified about this post. I am the owner of the pet shop and the gaboons in question and would just like to clarify a few things. Firstly Theo said we had a pair of gaboons come in, one gabonica one rhinoceros. This is true but the are all female. We have had the necessary import, display, holding, tops permits since the beginning and since last year march we got our permit to become a reptile park. We don't have a lot of space to build a large park but we just want to put a few enclosures with the lowveld's most common snakes and then a few others, like the gaboon, whose natural habitat is getting threatened every day. If anybody is in the Nelspruit area please look us up and come see our progress.
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Re: Bitis g.gabonica or Bitis g.rhinoceros

Postby Bushviper » Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:49 pm

predator678 wrote:Bushviper, is Bitis arietans protected ? I never knew that ?


In every province except KZN you require a permit to keep a puffadder so yes they are protected.

I have never heard of a pet shop getting a snake park permit and being allowed to keep these TOPS animals in an area where trade takes place. This must a unique relationship these people are awarded. Normally these premises have to be clearly divided into two separate entities. I guess each province has its own interpretations of the law.
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Re: Bitis g.gabonica or Bitis g.rhinoceros

Postby Ruan Stander » Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:48 pm

It seems that my interpretation of 'protected' is not very precise. I know they require permits in all other provinces. So in essence, Lamprophis capensis is protected ? My understanding of your use of 'protected' was more like threatened as is the case with Bitis gabonica, which caused the confusion as B. arietans is surely nowhere near threatened.
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Re: Bitis g.gabonica or Bitis g.rhinoceros

Postby Mr S » Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:25 pm

Bushviper

I believe you are correct. Each individual province seems to accept, and try to control, their specific permit requests according to their specific needs. Our Gaboon enclosure, caiman pond, leguaan pit, and python house are actually separate from the pet shop in question, even though they are pretty much run by the same guy. I am also aware of this division that should ideally be enforced however when you look at the layout of our set up one will see quite a distinctive bordering between snakes for sale and display animals.

Remember at this stage currently in Mpumalanga the parks board are not TOPS compliant, in the sense that they have yet to be recognized as a TOPS issuing authority, however do still keep those regulations in mind when issuing permits, until such time as they red tape can be cut free. Irrespective of this the gaboons were brought in on a TOPS permit.
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Re: Bitis g.gabonica or Bitis g.rhinoceros

Postby Whitelipp » Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:02 pm

Ok there Chris answered your question hehehe :smt020
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Re: Bitis g.gabonica or Bitis g.rhinoceros

Postby Bushviper » Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:44 pm

Well Chris then the statement that was posted "Just for interest sake, there's a petshop in Nelspruit that has a B.gabonica in display without TOPS permits." would then be a lie.

The statement of "we got our permit to become a reptile park" is also misleading. Either you are a park or not. It states "... we just want to put a few enclosures with the lowveld's most common snakes ...." meaning this is a future project. That's where the confusion starts.

If they are separated then that is not a problem because other entities also do this. Bester Birds and Animals and Bester Zoo is another example and is signposted as such. I think Westrand birds also works along those lines. Signs indicate where the one starts and the other ends.

If Mpumalanga is not a TOPS issuing authority how have the rhino horns, leopard trophies, Tsessebe mounts crocodile skins and cycads etc been exported in the past? Since 2007 and they cannot get their act together?
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Re: Bitis g.gabonica or Bitis g.rhinoceros

Postby Mr S » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:17 am

Ya bushviper, CITES permits are still issued as well as the other original Mpumalanga permits. This is acceptable for now by National.

Remember some people just dont know how to express their thoughts and information correctly on emails. I think this could add to the confusing mails before this. You should come live down here, much easier to get things done
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Re: Bitis g.gabonica or Bitis g.rhinoceros

Postby justinvBreda » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:37 pm

I live in Limpopo/Mpumulanga and this week Tuesday I was issued my import, keeping and TOPS permits for keeping Bitis gabonica, guess I am just lucky.
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Re: Bitis g.gabonica or Bitis g.rhinoceros

Postby chris_of_the_wild » Mon May 11, 2015 6:47 pm

So are both then illegal without permits? Just need to verify because I bought a pair of baby B. gabonica and was told that no permit is required as they are eastern. Im in Gauteng if that helps?
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