Busted at the border

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Re: Busted at the border

Postby CarlaSmit87 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:47 pm

Luckly I have nothing to worry about :) .
It's fine for people killing snakes left and right around town and even getting in the newspaper for it but I have to be checked up like a criminal :smt013 .
Not sure if Leon will come, he came last time when I applied for my permits, but it was our local Natcon lady who contacted me so I guess it will be her again.
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Re: Busted at the border

Postby Unforgiven » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:52 pm

So you actually got a call stating that they were going to visit you?

I suppose thats better than them arriving unanounced. Please let us know how it goes? What they ask and do.
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Re: Busted at the border

Postby CarlaSmit87 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:54 am

No no the may not arrive unannounced at my home wanting to do an inspection I will just refuse entry! As far as I know they should make an appointment with you or have legal documents/warrant to enter without my consent.
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Re: Busted at the border

Postby CarlaSmit87 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:12 am

Just had a call from Natcon again. She said that Leon said that she should explain that they are doing nationwide inspections currently and that it is being done so they can get a clear idea on how many reptiles are being kept by each individual. Looks like Leon Muller is at the head of all these inspections. Just hope they are inspecting the exotic bird/parrot keepers/breeders aswell! What's good for the goose is good for the gander!
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Re: Busted at the border

Postby Jamster » Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:51 am

So in other words they are admitting that the permit system doesn't work? They have to go door to door to count how many reptiles are being kept. If the permit system worked they could use permits to tally them up.
1.0-reticulated python (Ripcord)
1.1-burmese pythons
5.5-brown house snakes
1.0-taiwanese ratsnake
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1.2-rhombic skaapstekers
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Re: Busted at the border

Postby cascade » Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:15 pm

Often people will get new stock, babies and even just keep stuff and wont bother updating the permits or applying for new permits.
Inspections are meant to happen if you are on the permit system, the main excuses that I have heard over the years is, Natcon does not have enough man power to police the system. It seems like they are doing something about it.

I can tell you, some people have gotten slack and don't care, as they know Natcon just hands permits out and does nothing further.
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Re: Busted at the border

Postby Jamster » Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:22 pm

It isnt even Natcon now, its the hawks that are taking over these "raids" now. Here in PE anyway
1.0-reticulated python (Ripcord)
1.1-burmese pythons
5.5-brown house snakes
1.0-taiwanese ratsnake
3.8-BCI
1.1-corn snakes
1.2-rhombic skaapstekers
1.0-yellow rat snake
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Re: Busted at the border

Postby Chopper 1 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:05 pm

Andrew wrote:The magistrate asked the NC department rep if he would have given the accused a permit to transport the animals.
The answer was YES.
This without a question was an outright lie :shock:


Lie indeed!! I will refrain from getting further involved because my feelings towards all the other provinces (except KZN) is not good - they do not care about REAL Nature Conservation at all but more worried about petty stuff. How can one be allowed to kill snake but you can't catch snakes that will probably die on the road (i have done around 10 years of research on this subject in Namaqua land). :smt010 :smt010 :smt010 :smt010
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Re: Busted at the border

Postby Bushviper » Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:05 pm

Imagine you are having your permits checked in a "routine inspection" and one of the Hawks says "the only good snake is a dead snake". They need not bring this individual to my house.
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Re: Busted at the border

Postby Hantam » Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:51 pm

CarlaSmit87 wrote:Just had a call from Natcon again. She said that Leon said that she should explain that they are doing nationwide inspections currently and that it is being done so they can get a clear idea on how many reptiles are being kept by each individual. Looks like Leon Muller is at the head of all these inspections. Just hope they are inspecting the exotic bird/parrot keepers/breeders aswell! What's good for the goose is good for the gander!


@CarlaSmit87 As far as I know the bird guys also have their permit requirements to keep to and I know here in the Northern Cape they have started applying stricter control on the exotic birds the past year as I had to apply for permits for my exotic birds I keep. It seems the focus for now are on reptiles and hopefully the bird guys will get their national party as well soon.
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Re: Busted at the border

Postby Shaun » Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:07 pm

Chopper 1 wrote: - they do not care about REAL Nature Conservation at all but more worried about petty stuff.

Yes Chopper 1 most only care for their pay check. The fraud and blatant corruption I’ve personally witnessed in the W/Cape is shocking.

Bushviper wrote:"the only good snake is a dead snake".

My experience has been having to deal with incompetent ignorant CapeNature staff having less than a clue what they are doing or looking at but want to dictate what was written in a book in 1974.

Hantam wrote: … Northern Cape they have started applying stricter control on the exotic birds...

Leon Muller keep in mind that laws should be passed based on facts, science and realistic common sense.
In my opinion those who enforcing unjust laws without tolerance or compassion deserve the criticism due. :smt021
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Re: Busted at the border

Postby CarlaSmit87 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:47 am

Yes @ Hantam the first time Leon visited me he told me that they had a meeting with the Bird Breeders that night or next day. Close friends of mine do breed with parrots and she told me about their permit system which now closely relates to ours when it comes to transporting animals (even around town) and the prescribed cage sizes...

Wish Leon (NCNatcon) could comment and maybe give some clarity on these inspections?
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Re: Busted at the border

Postby froot » Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:07 am

Leon Muller keep in mind that laws should be passed based on facts, science and realistic common sense.
In my opinion those who enforcing unjust laws without tolerance or compassion deserve the criticism due.


Officials cannot by oath decide which laws to enforce and which to ignore while in the meantime criticizing them publicly can only widen the devide between them and animal keepers who are required to abide by the permit laws, from which such criticism would be perceived to come. This is only taking us further back from where we want to be. So we need to start employing wisdom. Determine where we want to be and then determine a strategy that will earn us the best chance of achieving our goal. I'll start this by saying that we should rather engage in progressive discussions with the law enforcement officials by encouraging them to agree that some current laws are redundant and then start the ball rolling on what a sensible legislation be that would serve optimal protection for the animals, the animal lovers and their rights, and that can be effectively enforced. Then get their buy-in to the concept, approach the government TOGETHER and apply for the changes.

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Re: Busted at the border

Postby Jamster » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:58 pm

That is exactly their attitude BV. When we offered for the official to go into the cage and count all thirteen puffies , his answer was along the lines of I'd rather chop their heads off with a spade.
1.0-reticulated python (Ripcord)
1.1-burmese pythons
5.5-brown house snakes
1.0-taiwanese ratsnake
3.8-BCI
1.1-corn snakes
1.2-rhombic skaapstekers
1.0-yellow rat snake
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Re: Busted at the border

Postby Shaun » Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:24 am

froot wrote: Officials cannot by oath decide which laws to enforce….


Quinten during World War II it was illegal to employ, educate or have any dealing with people who were of the Jewish faith in Germany. It was the law but it was no less wrong.
In the USA it was illegal for a woman to hold any political or senior private company position till 1918 because it was the law.
It was illegal for a non white to own property or vote in SA till after April 1994 because it was the law.
Currently in Saudi Arabia All women, regardless of age, are required to have a male guardian. Women cannot vote or be elected to high political positions.
Prior to 2008, women were not allowed to enter hotels and furnished apartments without their national identification cards because it was the law.

Laws are not absolute because the law is not always right or ethical. Defending people who aggressively enforce trivial violations of outdated legislation because they happen to be soft targets is worth criticism.
I certainly do not agree with lawlessness but we must never confuse the right thing and the law.

“We should never feel like we’re going too far in breaking the law, because whatever laws you break to liberate animals or to protect the environment are very insignificant compared to the laws that are broken by that parliament of whores in Washington. They are the biggest lawbreakers, the biggest destroyers, the biggest mass-murderers on this planet right now.” — Paul Watson
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