Breeding advice B caudalis

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Postby armata » Fri May 23, 2008 4:36 pm

We are running all DNA of Dwarf Bitis right now, bit short on caudalis though -offers????
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Postby xerophak » Fri May 23, 2008 5:30 pm

Pythonodipsas wrote:I just wouldn't breed them together because I'm a purist.


wow :shock: is excellent hear that, in my opinion .

good luck, I wish
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Postby Bushviper » Fri May 23, 2008 5:59 pm

Armata what do you need? I have a fair number of live ones to choose from. I recently threw away one from the hills in Pretoria which is a rare find after all the development taking place. I can go look in the freezer there should be a few roadkills there if they were not thrown out.

I would have assumed you had lots of DNA from this species because it is widespread and common.
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Postby Bushviper » Fri May 23, 2008 6:12 pm

If these animals were in any sort of project for release then breeding true would matter. How many of you are not breeding corn snakes or king snakes that we all know come from different states but are still the same species. This would be no worse than putting a puff adder from Natal and one from the Eastern Cape together or even a puff adder from Pretoria with one from Ellisras.

Many people on this forum have banded Snouted cobras and have no idea where they are from or even if the two they have are from the same province.

Would breeding an egg eater or house snake from Natal and one from the Cape bother anyone? I dont think so unless the babies were going to be released.

Possibly if we were allowed to collect animals and not get locked up for a weekend and pay R30 000 fines then we could wait to get pairs from specific localities. I am sure if nasicornis had the opportunity to find mates from those areas he would keep them as pure as possible.

I only have a single captive bred kalahari male and 4 ready to breed females from other localities (one unknown though). If he is old enough I will be forced to put them together. In the past 3 years I have lost 4 females which could have bred at least once or twice but never got males that were sexually mature or virile enough. That is a waste but collecting illegally is not an option for me.
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Postby armata » Fri May 23, 2008 6:21 pm

BV if you have the localities for those specimens of caudalis then it would be much appreciated. Do you need vials and ethanol?
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Postby Bushviper » Fri May 23, 2008 6:28 pm

I have localities on some of them. I need an assistant with drawing blood. A friend of mine H W Hermann from Arizona will be here next month so I will ask him to help. He did his doctorate on the genetics of Bitis and renamed atheris to proatheris etc so he is skilled in this stuff. I wonder if he still has some of the DNA he took when he was here. I can find out for you but it is probably still at Marburg university.

Can it wait till next month or should I try drawing blood myself?
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Postby armata » Fri May 23, 2008 6:30 pm

Yes thats fine, but tissue is also good from dead 'uns.

I am familiar with Hermann's, work. But was it it not our Don Broadley that named Proatheris?
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Postby Bushviper » Fri May 23, 2008 6:46 pm

I dont remember who did the description for Proatheris but I saw it in his thesis the first time so I just assumed...... I am getting too old for this remembering game.

What about Bitis atropos?
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Postby armata » Fri May 23, 2008 6:55 pm

Yes, we only have W.Cape B.atropos.
If you have Mpumalanga specimens or KZN Drakensburg that would be great.

Thanks
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Postby gaboon69 » Fri May 23, 2008 9:07 pm

Get your photoperiod right from 14hours a day down to 8 hours in winter.
Give them cooler temps over June/July and in August increase the temperature and day time.
That caudalis male is surely from the Northern Cape so they have rain in winter...keep that in mind and dont be shy to let the temp drop.

Credits due:Thanks to Gavin for sharing the priceless knowledge.
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Postby Rob » Fri May 23, 2008 11:14 pm

BV - I see your point regarding corns and kings etc.

I recently reached a place in my life where i feel locality breeding is, if nothing else, more exciting. What if i have a B. atropos from Bettys Bay and another from Sani Pass and for the past 3 years bred them to eachother. Then when theyre reclassified in the near future as you are aware BB and his mates are doing, what would i then say? I bred hybrids but didnt know?

We have a mutual friend with 3 different atropos localities and if he wanted to he couldve bred them to eachother but he chooses to breed localities instead so he has passed up the possibility of breeding them for at least 2 seasons now.
I guess all im saying is this to me makes more sense.
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Postby armata » Sat May 24, 2008 12:14 am

BV, Rob etc. Any atropos samples with known localities would provide valuable DNA.
My colleague Axel from Bangor has also just asked me for samples for B.schneideri and B.peringueyi. We have nothing for those two species.
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Postby Nasicornis » Sat May 24, 2008 12:45 pm

Ok, lets then say I decide not to breed these specific two together.

Is there perhaps someone out there that is in a similar position I am currently in? Would there be someone on here which might have a more suitable male for her and willing to swop for the Namaqua male???
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