BAD Stiletto bite

[DonaldSchultz]

OK, here are some graphic pics of a mate of mine that was smoked by a stiletto that was destined for me and research work that we are doing.


http://s41.photobucket.com/albums/e289/ ... 407846.pbr

it was an Atractaspis bibronii, from Tanzania, and we will write the whole bite up as it becomes apparent what will happen to the thumb.

don

[fatboy]

that is insane

[damiensharjah]

That's nasty business for a stiletto. The worst I've seen by far.

Was it confirmed as a bibroni? Whereabouts in Tanzania was it collected?

The two actactaspis here in Arabia are considered deadlier than cobras. I shrugged this off as another story until I learned of a Russian keeper in Riyadh that died within an hour of a bite by A. engaddensis, and then more recently two people in Western Saudi died, both within an hour of the bite. They get bloody big here too.

[Colinh]

Question (perhaps a blond one) but why not pop the blister so that the venom which is in the blister can be cleaned and perhaps there would be less damage to the tissue

[top dog]

Man that vidoe should come on a disc for free with every hot snake purchased.
i will no longer be watching bit wounds while eating breakfast

[Snake Charmer]

Oh man ... I'm feeling nauseous now ...!

It's bad ... really, really bad!

[Westley Price]

was he bitten on both thumbs or is that a mirror in one of the last pictures?

[froot]

Thanks for sharing.

Bite looks superficial to me, should heal fine. Must be dam painful though, what's the timeline over that series of photos Don?

[steve]

ouch!

[DonaldSchultz]

It was an Arusha locality. We are working on them, from a DNA stand point and venom stand point. I have A.fallax (previously microlepidota), and they are the biggest Atractaspis, mine are just under a meter. They have killed as well, around 6 hours though

Its not really that superficial, good chance he will loose that thumb!!

They never pop blisters, contraindicated, keeps all the bad stuff out. We are keeping the surgeons at bay till the very last so that he gets the max amount of time for the healthy tissue to reveal itself

d

[WW]

The rapid deaths documented fromArabia suggest that the Arabian Atractaspis go heavy on the sarafotoxins - these cause massively raised blood pressure and even coronary artery spasm. Messing with someone's ticker is of course the easiest way of unsubscribing someone from the listserver of life with startling rapidity.

Differences in fatality rates could be easily explainable by differences in the level of secretion of these toxins in the mix. It might also account why even species from groups known to be dangerous in some areas do not have that reputation elsewhere - e.g., a series of A. microlepidota and A. dahomeyensis bites in Nigeria reported by Warrell and colleagues were fairly trivial.

Were there any systemic signs in this particular case?

Cheers,

WW

[damiensharjah]

I have A.fallax (previously microlepidota), and they are the biggest Atractaspis, mine are just under a meter. They have killed as well, around 6 hours though d

The Arabian taxa are still lumped under the microlepidota complex(A.m.andersoni and A.m. engaddensis) and havn't been revised (as far as I know WW??) as yet, but they are likely to be close allies to your fallax. I know Ahmed Disi and Amr Zuhair labled the Northern one as M. engaddensis in their field guide on Jordan herps as well as Disi's Jordan country study on biological diversity - The Herpetofauna of Jordan, but I havn't seen any literature actually describing this. Gives me some homework for the 2nd edition of the book though.

They are also huge. I caught one in Salalah, Oman at 95cm, strangely enough right on top of a mountain in a little hollow in the rocks. The only thing I can surmise is that it was the height of the annual monsoon season, and the ground below was sodden.

[Bushviper]

My browser does not let me see the pics. I managed to see the smaller pics by clicking on the album pics.

Fluid drained from blisters has shown to contain venom so the removal of this fluid would make sense. Keeping the wound clean is not that difficult.

After 4 days you generally know how far the necrosis is going to spread and then you can start with debriding the wound.

I would not allow amputation until there is no blood supply entering or leaving the thumb. It will be sore for quite a while and he will need many months to recover.

[snake-5]

Eina nuf said i think, that looks dam painfull.

[DonaldSchultz]

WW--- Yes, he had some facial swelling... and obviously substantial pain.

Bushviper---disagree, on both counts. And so do the two doctors that are on the , Dr Bush and Dr Fry.