What needs to be said...

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What needs to be said...

Postby Burmbuddy » Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:44 pm

Hi guys.
Now I read the rules and I believe (hope) that this post is not in violation of any.
Ok here is the story. I am tired of having to deal with high end animals that have been stuffed up by so called breeders/traders just cos they do not give a dam about the animals (I cant see any other reason).
I LOVE the labyrinth gene in burms, a nice albino labby is in my mind one of the best burms out there. I have a nice full grown proven breeder male and have been looking for a female for about 3 years now. In Feb. this year a good friend of mine informed me that Pierre at Reptile Wonders (in the Cape) had some “hatchlings” for sale. Now I have had problems with this guy in the past and was very reluctant to buy from him again, but I was desperate and needed that female so I took the chance…again. I paid the full amount, as apparently a deposit would not do (dodge bit no1…) and then I waited….about 3 months later after being told numerous times that the permits was going to be approved “THIS” week I phoned Nat Con myself, only to find out the permit had been rejected…this apparently was News to the seller and he then said to give him I think a week or whatever. This we gave him and still nothing. I then told my friend to please take the burm into his care as I was concerned that the animals were not being cared for, I have seen some of the “voetstoots-cheep” animals that have come out of Reptile Wonders and I must admit they were shocking, so I was concerned that this baby was heading the same way…
Well when my friend took them into his possession and he was mortified… they were now AT LEAST 7 months old and still only about 30cm!!!!!!!! He said they were so weak that they could not right themselves if placed on their backs, had to be force fed, had scars and lumps from who knows what on them and their skin was like wax paper…My friend immediately smsed mr Joubert and said that we were not happy with these animals and all we got back was a “sorry to hear that” reply. Now I do not understand how one lets this happen to one of the rarest and most expensive burm morfs in SA, and to a burm non the less, who will eat almost anything????? They just basically were not fed….

I moved down to Ct about a month later and took possession of my little gal, now she looked A LOT better then what she looked like when he first got her, but still TERRIBLE compared to what she should be.
She is about 9-10 months old now and I have honestly seen bigger hatchlings before their first shed, I am not exaggerating, she fits on the palm of my hand with room to spare when coiled up.

She ate like a champ last night and I will have her up to size in a couple of months. I am just GATVOL of stuff like this. This guy would have been out of business in a week in the USA, but for same strange reason he keeps getting rare stuff, and people keep buying cos we want the rare stuff.

There are guys out there that really care for the animals and have high end stuff (A lot of them are on here), I would spend more to buy from them then other people, but I still do not understand how this happens….

I feel that this is a cancer on the hobby and needs to be said. The views in this post are solely my own and have no bearing on this site or the mods. If this post still needs to be removed I apologise for the inconvenience and sincerely hope that somebody about to support this vender seriously reconsiders before doing so.
Regards
DAN
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Blessed be the LORD, my rock, Who trains my hands for war, And my fingers for battle.
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Re: What needs to be said...

Postby jka » Thu Oct 16, 2008 5:01 pm

I have never had trouble with snakes that I got from Reptile Wonders or snakes that originated from him.

Burmbuddy wrote:This guy would have been out of business in a week in the USA, but for same strange reason he keeps getting rare stuff, and people keep buying cos we want the rare stuff.


As far as I know he gets some of the pythons from Bob Clark I know he had some albinos or het albinos from Bob Clark.

He is more reliable then some of the other people I did business with and ended up getting rip off, but I would be more weary next time.
Evolution is an imperfect and often violent process. A battle between what exists, and what is yet to be born.

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Re: What needs to be said...

Postby Q Ball » Thu Oct 16, 2008 5:19 pm

Sorry to hear about your ordeal Dan.

Glad to hear that, between you and your mate, managed to change what would have been quite a predictable future, or lack there of, for this girl. I stick to buying from reputeble dealers and guys whom I know and have done business with in the past.

my 2c
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Re: What needs to be said...

Postby Slayer69 » Thu Oct 16, 2008 5:30 pm

Guys the best advise i can give is to go and see the snake for yourself.
Yes it's difficult and expensive, but at least you know what your getting.
I'm about to make a purchase from Pierre, but will drive to him with the money and inspect the snake first before I hand him the cash.
This is that I don't trust anyone in our country anymore as most people are out to look after only themselves and unfortunately the animals end up suffering for this.

It seems that our hobby is riddled with this cancer of people in it for the buck and not for the love of animals.
I've heard good things about the snakes from Pierre from a few people now, but will still be carefull when buying etc from anybody.
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Re: What needs to be said...

Postby jka » Thu Oct 16, 2008 5:42 pm

Slayer69 wrote:This is that I don't trust anyone in our country anymore as most people are out to look after only themselves and unfortunately the animals end up suffering for this.

It seems that our hobby is riddled with this cancer of people in it for the buck and not for the love of animals.
I've heard good things about the snakes from Pierre from a few people now, but will still be carefull when buying etc from anybody.


I couldn't agree more with your first statement. You can never be too careful when dealing with money you get chancers everywhere.
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Re: What needs to be said...

Postby arcadies » Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:07 pm

I have never had any issue with Reptile Wonders myself, and i think this might be an off chance that something like this happens, at some point all of us have screwed up with our animals. its just one of those things.
"But I put my life on the line to save animals. " Steve Irwin (1962 -2006)
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Re: What needs to be said...

Postby Burmbuddy » Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:39 pm

Like i said, this has not been my first problems with. In fact i have NEVER done business with him where there was not some issue.

First time: Got the org albino lab, was supposed to be a female, turned out to be a male 18months later...

Second time: Got a male albino lab, snake was VERY thin, underfed and blew bubbles on the second night. To his credit Pierre took him back, but i had to broker a deal to get my money back....

Third time: Got the same male albino lab a few months later (like i said, wanted a pair bad and at this piont i believed my org was still a female), it was supp now all healed up. Found out the org "female" was actually a male when the two started fighting when i introduced them to mate...Pierre took the snake back but only refunded my R2000 6 MONTHS LATER, all he kept telling me was i will pay you next week or tomorrow...

forth time-this albino labby female.

That meens out of the 4 times i have dealt with him Pierre got it right ZERO, YES A BIG FAT ZERO % of the time, EVERYTIME there was a problem....even by the law of averages you should get it right at least some of the time....

He also talks about being Bob Clarks SA connection and how Bob only deals with him...if you believe that then you deserve to be taken for a ride...mail Bob yourself, he will deal with anybody and i think if he knew that Pierre was dropping his name and what his service was like then Pierre's US connection might be over very fast...

I am not trying to shake things up, some guys are good and deserve credit, but then some guys just dont cut the musterd deserve a scolding...

These are just the facts, when i met him i thought he was a hell of a nice guy, and he prob is, he just is not a good business man and i will never by an animal from him again, even if brokerd by a 3dr party.

If you still want to buy from him then do so at own risk, you have been warned...
DAN
Psalms 144:1
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Re: What needs to be said...

Postby Burmbuddy » Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:46 pm

Guys the best advise i can give is to go and see the snake for yourself.
Yes it's difficult and expensive, but at least you know what your getting.
I'm about to make a purchase from Pierre, but will drive to him with the money and inspect the snake first before I hand him the cash.


That is BS in my mind, it is like saying crime is a fact of life and you should just enjoy the rip-off...

I would buy a snake from Bob, Harry Wessels (Monstersankes), Mike Wilbanks, Ralph Davis any day of th month and they are on another continent...having to spend money just to make sure the animal is what he says it is is a big fat bag of BS...

Just my 2c...
DAN
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Blessed be the LORD, my rock, Who trains my hands for war, And my fingers for battle.
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Re: What needs to be said...

Postby Serpy » Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:53 pm

I agree hundred percent, i'd also buy things from those guys any day without having to worry about being ripped off, same thing applies with guys like Con. I'm sorry to here about your misfortune Dan, i hope she grows nice and big and produces many many babies so that we can be supplied with lovely healthy snakes:-)
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Re: What needs to be said...

Postby putridity » Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:52 pm

I have pretty much bought all my snakes from Pierre, have never had a problem with the snake physically before.
Yes he does say he will meet a certain date in which you would get your animal, and he doesn't make it, but i mean everyone has hang ups in life.
Selling reptiles is not his only job.
Pierre is a hell of a nice guy, and ya as many have said I havnt had any problems health and sex wise with snakes.
Im about to get a breeding pair of Brazilian Rainbow Boas from him this wknd, hopefully.
But yea fingers crossed for this.
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Re: What needs to be said...

Postby Loslappie » Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:04 am

I cannot stand ADT and have issues with them almost every month, while my neighbour is absolutely happy with the service. Not everybody can be satisfied all the time, that being said you do you damnest to help your client, sure in some instances the situation is out of your control.

This is an open forum and you are free to say what you feel, Pierre is not here (not that I know of) so why not invite him along and give an account, after all there are lots of potential clients reading this, and at the moment they might not want to buy from him.
What you guys think? Arcadies do you think he will come online?
If it hasnt yet, it will!
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Re: What needs to be said...

Postby reptilefeeders » Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:51 am

Hi all

I bought most of my snakes from pierre, incl the albino burmese that i have posted a pic of before. The only problem that i have with the snake is that she does not want to eat anything else but live food. Otherwise she is fine.

I bought a spotted king snake from him before and the snake was so small that the smallest mouse pinkie could not even fit in his mouth. I tried to feed it for a month but he would not eat. After a month pierre replaced the king for me.

Pierre used to be a teacher and "reptile wonders" was just his hobby/side business but he retired the end of last year so all his time goes into reptile wonders now(or i hope so).
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Re: What needs to be said...

Postby Burmbuddy » Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:32 am

Why does it matter if this is his only job or not?

Con Prisloo (Ballpythons.co.za)-Car dealership
Ralhp Davis- Carpenter.
Mike Wilbanks (Constrictors)-General store, guns and ammo dealer.
Harry Wessel (Monstersnakes)-Not sure what he does, but it is for dam sure not full time reptiles.
Chad Brown (Pro Exotics)- Professional football player

There are tons of guys out there with amazing animals and great service that hold down regular 9-5ers.

The only people that do this full time that I know of are Kevin Mc Curly (NERD), Bob Clark and Brain Barcheck (BHB) , there are prob others, but doing reptiles full time is a privilege in my mind and most guys on here’s dream job. These guys (Kevin, Bob…) are only able to do this because their service and animals were Excellent before they became full time breeders. You don’t just wake up one morning and become a full time reptile breeder, it takes A LOT of hard work and effort. The runts that come out of Bob Clarks place are prob better then the premier stuff we get here. I have never heard of anything like this happening to a client of one of the big name reputable breeders over in the US, and they are a hell of a lot more open with regards to criticism on their forums, Fauna has an entire board dedicated to vender reviews and testimonials.

The bottom line is we are South African and as such used to getting the sort end of the stick…lack of competition forces us to accept the bad things as “part of the business”. Why don’t I just send the animal back? 1-I am fully convinced it will die there. 2-I don’t want to wait another 6 months for a refund…

Having Pierre on here would be great. Perhaps we could have a section where one can buy animals from a vendor and everything is open to public view, then the guys can judge for themselves if they want to buy or not from the service that one gets, and every time something is said to happen tomorrow and doesn’t the entire forum knows about it…I bet service would be A LOT better…

If somebody reeds this and thinks twice about buying from him then that is their business, and I would say good for them. We are all adults (well most of us) and we should be allowed to share our experiences and opinions honestly. I would welcome an answer from him on here (will be interesting to hear how he explains a 30cm 9 month old burm….). I will try and get some pics up of exactly how this little girl looks and how small she is (Camera was stolen in move…), we can compare that to a healthy burm of the same age.

You and me, the SA reptile community deserve better. It is time we are honest with ourselves, if you feel you deserve to pay 100% and only get 60% product (animal) then perhaps you should invest in some self esteem classes…
Psalms 144:1
Blessed be the LORD, my rock, Who trains my hands for war, And my fingers for battle.
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Re: What needs to be said...

Postby Slayer69 » Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:02 am

Burmbuddy I think you just had a bad experience.
Now do us all a favour you've had your say and shot everyone else down who tried to have there's.
Getting ripped off in this country in not BS, it's a day to day occurence.
When the next in line to be president has been up for corruption charges, there should be a bell in your head that says I must be most carefull when doing business in SA.

I will be getting snakes from Pierre in the near future and will be happy to post my experiences in dealing with him.
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Re: What needs to be said...

Postby Loslappie » Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:37 am

Without saying too much and having my head jumped on :smt021
I have noticed, and this is my opinion, there is to a degree anamosity amongst some herpers especially down here, specifically the guys that breed, which should have been just natural competition, but it goes beyond that for some or other reason and guys start bad mouthing each other, and also start selling very aggressively, unfortunately you are always going to pay top dollar for rare animals.
On the other hand to pay top dollar for an animal you have not seen is another matter entirely, I can understand how you had to have that snake no matter what the cost, but still.... Im not going to pay big money for something I Have not seen. when I bought from him, my snake was delivered to me by him personally and I handed him the cash when I was satisfied with the snake.

In my opinion and its sad though, to many breeders or shops its near impossible to feed all the animals regularly, and give them the personal attention they need, also if he has to source the animal from another breeder he probably hasnt seen the animal... yet that is no excuse if the animal is in ill health. BUT he will grab any oppertunity to sell the snake beleiving that it will do better when it is in an Individuals care, and gets the attention it needs, sad, but it happens.
Another issue that I have heard of and its occurring alarmingly common is some guys are accepting snakes with the promise that the permit will follow, I admit I have done it once, but after two weeks of nothing you should be just more than a little concerned.
In fact I know of a mate that has bought snakes from a guy with the promise that the permits is on its way, and that was months away, yet another guy has the permits but sits without the snakes and just by chance they know each other, so what do they do?? both of them has paid for the same snakes, yet 1 has the permits, and the other has the snakes :smt017 besides the fact that should they have an inspection done by Cape Nature, what will the outcome be? :shock: :shock:

So what do we learn from this?? well each one can learn their own lesson, fortunately I didnt learn the hard way, and hopefully nobody does to either.
Burmbuddy I know its not easy on you as you expect the service you pay for, however, the trip to Vredenburg could have saved you a lot of issues, and probably given you power to negotiate what you would consider a fair deal.
Burmbuddy where are you currently located?

Now you can :smt021 me
If it hasnt yet, it will!
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