The End. -of the end.

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The End. -of the end.

Postby Alan Hyde » Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:43 pm

Dear Herpy friends,
The last few months have been an absolute nightmare. I brought in 3 nasicornis and 1 baby gaboon which were quarantined at the far end of my 20ft garage in clip lid tubs that were placed in a vivarium.
Unfortunately these animals brought in some kind of airbourne virus that is creeping round wiping out all my snakes . I have had feaces examined and they have returned healthy , this disease responds to no drugs whatsoever and has an incubation of up to two months.
I thought the disease had stopped and went to Houten to buy news snakes, I have already lost the Kenyan puffs .

So, There has been alot of work gone into my nasicornis bitis study and I really couldn't face starting from scratch all over again. Therefore, I am stepping out of the interest a very sad depressed man.

I will write up all the results of my study to date, much of this is still theory ,but I believe if someone else carries on where I leave off it'll be fact on many issues..

B*****ks i'm soooo cheesed off

Al
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Re: The End.

Postby Leos r gr8 » Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:59 pm

Damn! I'm so sorry Allan! If I may ask, was your collection large? Hopefully you can find out what it was, destroy it and get your collection up and running again soon!
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Re: The End.

Postby Alan Hyde » Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:13 pm

Hi Leos, and thanks for the kind words.

The collection consisted of 4.6 nasicornis , 0.2 b.gab rhinocerous 2.2 b.arietans. Nobody can sus out what it is , I have one showing signs now and I will euthanise it tomorrow and have an autopsy performed, but the trouble is the length of incubation time means that all are probably infected , and many are showing the early signs.
The disease has also changed in its symptoms as it has progressed around , strangely it seems to be taking out the females first, but this must be coincidental as I can't imaging a gendder selective virus
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Re: The End.

Postby Pythonodipsas » Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:32 pm

WOW I am so sorry to hear this - must be devastating. I can think of anything worse.

What symptoms are they showing?
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Re: The End.

Postby Mitton » Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:37 pm

I am so sorry to hear this Alan, that is absolutely horrible.
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Re: The End.

Postby Alan Hyde » Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:37 pm

Hi Mittone, Pythonodipsas, and thanks.

Ok, The process goes like this.... All feed normaly hammering food and then slowly start to slow down . They reluctantly strike, then finaly will only take if left alone, then feeding stops. The bowls are then emptied with a normal healthy stool followed 4-7 days later by a greyish mucusy stool , this is the turning point and they will no longer feed .
The snake then becomes listless and distant , it will not shuffle down in the substrate and lays in a tight coil. If any drugs are administered they will never regurge but keep passing mucus, if no drugs or probiotics are used they will just remain listless.
At first the disease would spread to repiritory and weezing + green thick mucus will be expelled from the nose and mouth. Now respiritory no longer plays a part and the snakes remain coiled and start to stargaze.
I do not know how these last ones die , respiritory would finish the early cases but I now euthanise as soon as the nasty stool has been passed in an attempt to stop the disease.
I have been using F10 diinfectant on absolutely everything , cages, door knobs , tools , handle on the food freezer, everything. I am fortunate to be at home all the time so as soon as the poo is seen it's out and steralise.

I feel I have nothing to loose and am tempted to open the cages and let off a can of F10 room fogger
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Re: The End.

Postby Pythonodipsas » Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:53 pm

I may be way off here but my first thought was the food supply. Has anything changed here. Do you buy the food from an outside source? Have you changed the water/food of your own rodent source? Either way it sounds nasty!
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Re: The End.

Postby Alan Hyde » Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:23 pm

Good point, and I thought the same thing.
I buy all my food frozen from a local supplier and they feed their own stock on the same food. They have not had any problems with their snakes as far as I know, but I will call in there tomorrow and ask my good friend who works there and can trust to give me an honest answer.
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Re: The End.

Postby Pythonodipsas » Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:31 pm

Well in some way I hope it something as easy as this (for your sake). Then you could nip the problem in the bud.
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Re: The End.

Postby Chantel » Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:57 am

Geez Alan, I am so sorry to hear this!! I can imagine how you feel as I have lost some really nice stuff over the years as well believe me!! The stargazing is the worrying part! Have you had tests done for paramyxovirus yet?
You should try using Virkon as a sterilizing agent. Kills almost every virus and germ and is safe to use.Airborne viruses are really bad and are so difficult to control!
I hope the autopsy reveals something so you know what you are dealing with!
Its really hard when something like this happens and I know you feel like giving up, but I think once reptiles are in your blood you try and pick up the pieces and carry on.
Regards
Gavin
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Re: The End.

Postby Q Ball » Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:03 am

Allan,

I am truely sorry to hear about this and can imagine how helpless you must feel. I personally gained from your contributions on this site and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Please let us know when you make your research available.

Regards
Q
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Re: The End.

Postby Nasicornis » Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:42 am

Alan. Yes it is understandable that you want to give up but believe me when I say, you never will. You may stop keeping snakes for some time, probably, but in the end the addiction will win and you will be back on track. On the other thread I mentioned my bad luck with B. arietans, which is why I will scale down on them for now but will defenitley be having more of them in my collection at a later stage.

Strongs from my side, know exactly how you feel.

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Re: The End.

Postby Alan Hyde » Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:25 am

Thank You everyone, I really appreciate everyones support, kindness and words of encouragement.
I think you're definitely right, once herps are in the blood it never goes away, have given up before only to return once again.

This morning there is a glimmer of hope. My gorgeous wife said that I should bring the tanzanian puffs and Ugandan rhinos indoors as so far they seem unaffected. Fingers crossed that this nasty bug/virus has not got them yet and I may end up with at least four survivors.

Gavin, i'm hoping that the autopsy will reveal what i'm dealing with, as we all know if it is paramyxovirus or any other kind of virus the best thing to do is euthanise, steralise and move on.


Fingers crossed those indoors are clear
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Re: The End.

Postby steve » Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:39 am

my deepest sympathy goes out to you Al, we all had alot to learn from your observations with this species.
a similer incodent occured with phobos or viper keeper on you-tube and i think it was traced back to his food supply as the cause for the untimely deaths, perhaps ask him if the symptoms are similar.
otherwise if you want my 2c, dont give it up mate, the road to success is always a bumpy one, carry on and things will smoothen out.
kind regaurds.
cheers
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Re: The End.

Postby Alan Hyde » Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:23 am

Hey Steve, thanks mate.

Well, all is quiet in the snake room for the last two days , no more new outbreaks just two nasicornis in isolation. I threw all my food out yesterday and went and bought new stock from a different supplier just to be sure.

All I can say at this point is, the disease always starts the same way but shows differing symptoms in each individual. The two that are infected at the moment seem almost normal, no other effects aside from the nasty poo followed by a refusal to feed.

Cheers,
Al
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