Natal Midland Dwarf Chameleon

Natal Midland Dwarf Chameleon

Postby Saskia » Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:04 am

Could some one please help me? I am looking for a care sheet for the Natal Midland Dwarf Chameleon and how will I know the difference between male and female? I rescued one from a guy selling them along the road in Gauteng - but will go and release it in January when we go down to Durban.
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Re: Natal Midland Dwarf Chameleon

Postby Westley Price » Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:12 am

As good as you intentions were Saskia, by buying any animal from those idiots on the side of the road, you are motivating them to go get more, even if you did buy it for release.

If you just took it from them, good on you!

Also, it would not be a good idea to release it again as it could have picked up some parasites/virusses here in Gauteng to which the population in KZN has no resistance to and this could have a negative impact.

This is a tricky one, as you are not allowed to keep it in Gauteng either.

If you post a picture we'll be able to tell you if it's a male or female. It's fairly easy.
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Re: Natal Midland Dwarf Chameleon

Postby Saskia » Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:42 am

My kids are on holiday and took the camera with - so I'll only be able to post next year then...

Can't you explain how I can have a look if it's male or female?
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Re: Natal Midland Dwarf Chameleon

Postby Fooble » Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:51 am

Saskia you're in a sticky situation because what you have is effectively an illegal chameleon not to mention they are a threatened species and are on the Red Data List.

Who is this goon who is selling them illegally?

These animals are extremely localized and you cannot simply release them in Durban. Are you sure they are the Midlands Dawrd Chameleon?

Sexing them is easy :

Male B.thamnobates
Image

Juvinile Male

Image

Female B.thamnobates

Image

Juvenile Female
Image
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Re: Natal Midland Dwarf Chameleon

Postby Saskia » Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:54 am

The guy was standing at a traffic light near EastGate ... And it looks like a male.
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Re: Natal Midland Dwarf Chameleon

Postby Francois » Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:14 am

I have seen lots for sale on gumtree in the past weeks. It's illegal right?
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Re: Natal Midland Dwarf Chameleon

Postby Fooble » Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:25 am

Can't imagine why someone would be selling them in Eastgate very strange.

If you can obtain permits to collect them (which you will never receive) and produce true captive babies F2 and further then have those are authentic captive stock then there is no issue. But dealing with a Threatened species isn't ideal.

I recently had 60+ babies which i released back into a particular area in the Midlands.
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Re: Natal Midland Dwarf Chameleon

Postby Bushviper » Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:29 pm

If you take them to Joburg zoo I am sure they will be able to put them to good use.

Releasing this one is really not going to anyone any good. Not the specimen or the species. If you dont release it within a few kilometres of its origin then you are going to really create a genetic contaminant in the are where it is.

In future see if you can phone Nature Conservation on 0827590078 and possibly they can arrest these idiots.
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Re: Natal Midland Dwarf Chameleon

Postby taiwanbeauty » Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:40 pm

There were also a couple of guys selling chameleons close to suncity(R50 each), that was at the time of the SAMA Awards at suncity.
My aunt almost bought it just to release it back.
They were also selling various species of tortoises
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Re: Natal Midland Dwarf Chameleon

Postby chamcode » Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:54 pm

I would like to add my two cents about the Gumtree ads for Natal Midlands Dwarf Chameleons.

My response to both of the current ads on November 21st:
"I would like to find out whether you would be able to arrange an export permit from KZN Wildlife, if I would like to buy some of your Midlands Dwarf Chameleons? I live in Cape Town, and would need your export permit to support an import permit from Cape Nature."

Their response: None.

I seem to remember a conversation on this forum about whether someone in KZN (one of the advertisers in this case) had permits for their chameleons. I had contacted that person a few years ago, also in response to his ad for these chameleons, and mentioned the need for permits up front. Back then, when push came to shove and we had to get the paperwork going, he simply did not respond and I e-mailed him to cancel my order.

I tried three times with the other advertiser and by the third time I got a little cranky :smt021 :
"Your continued advertising, despite your lack of response to repeated replies to your ad, raises some concerns. Is the request for permits an issue?
The date your ad was listed and the date of birth indicated, does not correspond with the age stated in the first line of your ad.
You mention that you are concerned about the babies having the right setup, but while stating that they are used to cooler weather, you advise prospective owners to keep their temperature between 28-30 degrees, which is too hot a constant temperature for the Midlands Dwarf. Chameleons need a temperature gradient, which would mean that one has to provide a basking light, as well as a source of UVB. A 50 Watt UV light seems like overkill for a chameleon of this size."

Date of birth: 10/10/2011. Age in the first line of the ad: "1 month 5 days old today", which has stayed constant since my first reply on 21 November. The heading in one of these ads read "Amazing juvenile chameleon". They are now "Amazing baby chameleons".

Now, I am by no means an expert on dwarf chameleons (haven’t had the opportunity to practice ;) ), but they have subsequently amended their ad to "25-28 degrees" and "50Watt UV light or less", which tells me that they have been reading my responses.

It seems clear to me that I won’t be able to buy any of these chameleons if I want to get a permit along with it?
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Re: Natal Midland Dwarf Chameleon

Postby Fooble » Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:42 pm

chamcode.

These chameleons this guy advertises are in fact captive bred as in bred in captivity he has done so for a few years.
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Re: Natal Midland Dwarf Chameleon

Postby chamcode » Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:15 pm

Fooble,

I don’t doubt that for a minute. Fact is that I am trying to get these captive bred chameleons with a permit. I am just puzzled why I don’t even get a response.
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Re: Natal Midland Dwarf Chameleon

Postby Fooble » Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:19 am

I'll tell you why.

As i am sure you are aware in Kwa Zulu Natal there are no permits required to keep any reptile species excluding TOPS animals.
Being so Ezemvelo (KZN nature if you will) have no idea what they are doing nor have any idea about transport permits and the like.
I often just don't deal with people outside of KZN for just that very reason.

The headache and wait to try organise permits for a few hundred rand is not even worth the time.
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Re: Natal Midland Dwarf Chameleon

Postby Bushviper » Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:16 pm

Oh yes there is a whole list of species for which you require permits including all tortoises, monitors and chameleons and they are not all on TOPS regulations.

Fooble there are numerous members on this forum that get permits for exports all the time.
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Re: Natal Midland Dwarf Chameleon

Postby Vipernhunter » Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:49 pm

Here a pic from my male/female

Very nice chamäleons.
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