To all Potential Venomous snake enthusiasts

This is for anything with regards to reptiles which is not species specific or over a broad band of reptiles. Be it husbandry, caging, etc. you can post it here.

Re: To all Potential Venomous snake enthusiasts

Postby bubblesharp » Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:04 pm

Well, I must say that the other day I have almost bought me a pair of hatchling white lips. They looked really beautiful. I quickly realized that I have no idea what I was about to get myself into. :smt018
I have not the faintest clue how to handle venomous snakes, even "starter" ones.

Yes, soon I will be doing a snake handling course, but no it will not be so that I can keep hots. It is more for the experience and that in the event that I do come across a venomous snake I know how to handle it safely for both of us.

I love all snakes and other reptiles, but I choose not to keep all of them, besides where will I put them all. :lol:

I will rather visit people that do keep them and view them in their snake rooms. In my house I will only keep non venomous, as I love to take them out and hold the, I love to feel them glide over my hands, I love being able to build that trust with animals.

I feel that the people that sells the hots take a little more care in who they sell the snakes to and make sure that those people have the necessary experience etc.
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Re: To all Potential Venomous snake enthusiasts

Postby TonyK » Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:13 am

bubblesharp wrote: In my house I will only keep non venomous, as I love to take them out and hold the, I love to feel them glide over my hands, I love being able to build that trust with animals.


So you think you can build trust with a snake?Sorry but I doubt snakes can even recognise individual people.
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Re: To all Potential Venomous snake enthusiasts

Postby Kev3 » Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:33 am

trust is only relative to the first time it bites... the good old saying, if it's a "wild" animal and has teeth it can bite!
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Re: To all Potential Venomous snake enthusiasts

Postby TonyK » Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:41 am

Kev3 wrote:trust is only relative to the first time it bites... the good old saying, if it's a "wild" animal and has teeth it can bite!

Thats so true ,I have lost count of the number of times I have heard of "tame"snakes bitting peoples kids in the face or where ever and the story is always the same ,that the snake was trustworthy or tame.I don't accept it that you can trust a snake.
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Re: To all Potential Venomous snake enthusiasts

Postby fredsmith » Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:57 am

TonyK wrote:
Kev3 wrote:trust is only relative to the first time it bites... the good old saying, if it's a "wild" animal and has teeth it can bite!

Thats so true ,I have lost count of the number of times I have heard of "tame"snakes bitting peoples kids in the face or where ever and the story is always the same ,that the snake was trustworthy or tame.I don't accept it that you can trust a snake.

You can trust a snake to act like a snake...
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Re: To all Potential Venomous snake enthusiasts

Postby Bushviper » Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:07 am

Bubblesharp it would be better for you to go on a husbandry course which includes venomous snake keeping rather than a handling course.
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Re: To all Potential Venomous snake enthusiasts

Postby bubblesharp » Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:26 am

Post by TonyK » Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:13 am

bubblesharp wrote: In my house I will only keep non venomous, as I love to take them out and hold the, I love to feel them glide over my hands, I love being able to build that trust with animals.



So you think you can build trust with a snake?Sorry but I doubt snakes can even recognise individual people.


Sorry guys I think you misunderstood me! I did NOT say that it builds MY trust!

I meant to said I build IT'S trust.

I have a little black rat snake(Morpheus) (still to be sexed) in my cage. its going on 50cm now and lives very happily with with Trinity a 1.3m Yellow Texas Rat (I call her this, because she is identical to all yellow rat snakes I have seen so far yet both her parents are Texas, and so are both her Sisters) Anyway, no one can take these snakes out the cage but me. They do recognize people to some degree. Sure the Yellow snake (Trinity) has striked at me before, but that is my own fault, moving a snake in the blue that has just fed and was still a bit hungry, swallowed another 2 mice after that .

If someone else holds them, they will come back to me if I am close enough, but wont go to some one else when they are with me. So I do believe that they can recognize individuals to a degree, and you can build it's trust. I am well aware that these are still wild animals but lets be honest, if my Trinity or Morpheus bites me, in all honesty I might be skittish for a while, but I will take them out again and again. If some poor Kid take out their Rattle Snake or Cobra and it bights them... well he might never get the chance to take them out again.
Referring to another post where a boy about 17 has a Rattle snake (supposedly) viewtopic.php?f=76&t=25667

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Re: To all Potential Venomous snake enthusiasts

Postby Kev3 » Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:05 am

I don't feed snakes about too shed... I let them complete their shed before feeding again...
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Re: To all Potential Venomous snake enthusiasts

Postby bubblesharp » Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:23 am

Post by Kev3 » Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:05 am
I don't feed snakes about too shed... I let them complete their shed before feeding again...


I used to, then I got bitten because the snake hasn't eaten in 2 weeks. As soon as my hand went in the snake striked and tried to wrestle my hand to eat my finger. 3 months later she escaped, while in the blue. Now my snakes don't miss a feeding day unless they don't want to eat.

I think the most venomous snake that I would consider would be something like a Hognose or similar, a very mild venom that is almost harmless to humans, and they are still really pretty snakes, and oh that brilliant acting from a hognose, I just love them!
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Re: To all Potential Venomous snake enthusiasts

Postby ekoplex » Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:10 am

Letting your neighbors know you have venomous snakes lol, they are most likely going to have a problem with it.
"Ya ive got a couple of Copperheads a Cobra and a few Vipers are you ok with that? just keep an eye out theres always a chance they might escape"
Haha ya i just cant imagine having a conversation like that with my neighbor.

I dont keep any venomous snakes and after seeing those pictures i think ive been put off for life.
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Re: To all Potential Venomous snake enthusiasts

Postby Feederwarehouse » Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:05 pm

Surley there should be more control over people owning hots. They are dangerous and should not just be kept because someone wants to show off but for educational and scientific purposes.
Good for you for posting this and warning people because I don't think they always realise the danger they are putting themselves in.
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Re: To all Potential Venomous snake enthusiasts

Postby Andre.P » Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:09 pm

I know this thread is a bit old, but I do like it and I'd like to add to it.
What I hate is that there is a lot of information going about that is perceived the wrong way by inexperienced people. For example, there are a few posts talking about White-lips and Copperheads as okay "starter hots" as it is unlikely that a bite would prove fatal. In my experience, kids see this a green light, thinking something in the line of "It will be okay if I get bitten, it is not like I am going to die... Maybe just a little bit of pain for a few days". I say this as I was once one of those kids. I also recently had a discussion with a 12 year old boy who said that he was jealous of my collection and wants to keep "hots".
I don't think that anyone who has received a proper bite from either of these species will tell you that it was "okay".

So here is my take on keeping venomous reptiles (not just potentially deadly ones):
1 - Do you want to "graduate" to keeping hots? - If "yes" then don't, you are doing it to show off, maybe not to someone else, but to yourself.
2 - Do you understand the FULL repercussions of a bite from the species you want to get? If "no" don't do it. It is irresponsible and dangerous.
3 - Do you have experience working with venomous snakes? If so, what types? Vipers, elapids, colubrids? Were they arboreal or terrestrial? - Keep this in mind as different types of snakes move and behave differently.
4 - Have you worked with venomous snakes and kept snakes for many years and it just so happens that that one beautiful snake you have always wanted, all those years (not to play with though), just so happens to be a venomous snake. You know it's biology, husbandry needs, looked at several case studies of their bites and are still interested? If "yes" then maybe.
5 - You answered "yes" to no.4 because you have kept played with some puffies that your uncle caught on his farm and you now think you can handle a rattlesnake, which is cool as you think that rattlesnakes are "badass" - Then NO, you are not ready and should stay clear of these snakes, also You should take back and release those snakes you are keeping without permits.

However, if you make this criteria and your dream is to own a green mamba, but you would like to get some experience with some less venomous species first, then it should be okay as well I guess. But always realize that that "less venomous" species should be treated as if it was a mamba and that a bite will never be "okay".

Getting "hots" just because they are "hots" as a bad idea in general. I know a few people who have done this and changed their tune about this approach fairly quickly (without getting tagged). Some of them do not keep venomous anymore.
If you want to keep snakes, do it because you love them and not because you want to show off to anyone, including yourself. Keeping something venomous is a huge responsibility and is not something you should do to get a thrill out of playing with danger. There are many beautiful and uncommon harmless snakes out there if you want to show off your "cool" snake to your friends, like Rhino ratsnakes, Dragon snakes, etc. I like showing off my gorgeous 2.2m female Taiwanese rat snake more than bragging about any of the "hots" I keep.
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Re: To all Potential Venomous snake enthusiasts

Postby Aninelab » Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:48 pm

Thank you so much for pulling this thread out in the open again. It's like the wake up call that, I believe, most newbies snake keepers like myself needed to hear. I have read a lot on this site about permits / legal factors and the necessity for husbandry / handling courses, but some of you here have just put it plain straight. Keeping hots is a massive responsibility. So here is my 2c's worth:

Just like the rhino issue in SA currently, I believe the same principle should apply to all other kinds of animals. It's a plain and simple marketing strategy. If the market is introduced to a certain product, the need will be created. If the market (the buying public) isn't introduced to the product, they won't have a need for it. Ok, I know it goes both ways... conservation, funding etc. I do understand. But: If you breed these hots, if you are the owner of hots with the intention to sell these hots from your pet shop etc. Isn't it your responsibility as well as the buyers' that you ensure that who you sell your hot to is capable etc? I know when I was given my snake as a gift, I was petrified. Sure I've always talked about one day owning one, but now I had it. In a little cage in front of me. Excitement quickly made way for absolute confusion. What does she eat, how often, how should I keep her, should I handle her? Quickest solution: Google it! And my snake is only a Cal King! Now the following: I know of people that sold a viper, copperhead and other "mild exotic venomous" to my friend. He himself has had no experience, was a first timer and to be honest, neither one of us had a clue what he was getting himself into. Watching videos from ViperKeeper, to google info about the snakes, speaking to snake handlers/keepers, someone with experience has pulled him through in the beginning. But I know this is just the start. My cage is escape proof, but my Cal King got out once. It was me that didn't close the doors properly. So yes, as long as humans are in contact with captive snakes, there will always be some mishap or human error thrown into the mix and these snakes will get out. Fine, my Cal King will be the worst off if she had to get away. But the dogs, cats, the kids, ourselves, the neighbors' pets, kids and the whole community are at risk if a hot was to escape! Do we really have the insight to realize the responsibility we are taking on when you decide that you want some exotic and exceptional animal to display in your house? Venomous snakes aren't paintings or exquisite ornaments. They deserve to be taken care of, properly. At least my friend did get to do as much research as possible, but through horrific stories we also heard of people that just doesn't even go that far. Yes, he is suppose to belong to a herpetology association, do the courses and he was supposed to start off with non-venomous first... but it's too late now. Soon, I hope, he will do the courses etc. whatever is necessary... and I hope we still have a friendship after this. :)

But some of you here are breeders, I've met one or two of you myself. As long as I have the money, you will sell this hot to me. You don't know if I was going to give this to my 10yr old boy to handle, you didn't ask. You didn't know beforehand if I had the cage, the heat pad, the water, the housings, the feed... you didn't ask me any questions and you didn't know if I had a clue. But what I asked you was, how much? And you took my money. This is the personal experience I had. And because I was sold these hots, I assumed that it was ok. It wasn't that bad. Now I'm the stupid one? My money was good enough, but now I'm the stupid one? Before buying a snake I didn't even know that something like a herpetology association existed!

I'm not generalizing here, but I think the problem begins not with the stupid idiotic public out there. It starts with the persons supplying the stupid idiotic public with hots. I think that selling hots in any way, shape or form should be done with more responsibility. But I also know that if I had to go buy a puppy from the pet shop, neither of these questions will be asked anyway. But snakes, non- or venomous are not patting pets. They are cool, lovely but it is hard work and a huge responsibility. Towards the snake, the owner, the family, the other pets, the direct community. Does shop keepers / breeders / sellers see this?

Education seems to be the problem throughout... from the breeder, supplier straight through to the buyer. And if educated, I believe, hope, that more of us in the complete circle of this industry, will know what responsibilities we should be taking on, before we make our decisions.
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Re: To all Potential Venomous snake enthusiasts

Postby Bushviper » Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:58 am

I think you will be surprised to see how strict some breeders are when selling hots. There will always be the cowboys who sell hots but there is nothing we can do about it. Just like buying a pit bull. Not all breeders will make sure you know what you are letting yourself in for.
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Re: To all Potential Venomous snake enthusiasts

Postby kfc223 » Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:51 pm

That is true.

There are also some breeders that generalize that every venomous keeper under the age of 18 is a irresponsible testosterone driven teenager that keeps venomous snakes to be cool, and because of that it is quite difficult for people like myself to find good quality(healthy) animals from a reliable person.

Almost all of the animals I would like to purchase are indigenous, but finding someone that has good quality stock and is willing to sell them to be is near impossible. A species like Rinkhals, I just love the banded form and would like to buy a pair. I know of a few reputable breeders that have a few animals available but will not sell them to me just on the basis of my age. I know of a rather sketchy park in KZN that is willing to sell Rinkhals to me, but these are all wild caught animals in a very poor condition. I would not want to support poaching nor would I want to buy animals if the are in such a bad condition.

This puts me in a situation where the only animals I can get are either from very sketchy guys with animals that are probably wild caught or there are a few decent guys that will sell to me but they only sell exotics. I would prefer the indigenous species, but there are a number of exotics I would like too.

So I guess its still a matter of searching for a reputable person selling indigenous species that is willing to sell to me. I doubt I will find anyone anytime soon but I won't give up searching.
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