Panther Chameleons - importing

Panther Chameleons - importing

Postby bobthedinosaur » Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:10 pm

Hi, I'm very very interested in getting a Panther Chameleon, though it seems they are just about impossible to find in SA
does anyone know of someone who might be busy breeding a few or who has an import contact?
failing the above, it seems I might have to resort to importing them myself from the USA/UK (which would be better?)
also, does one need a special permit to breed Chameleons/Panther Chameleons?
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Re: Panther Chameleons - importing

Postby Bushviper » Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:14 pm

Bob do a search on the problems related to imports on this very site. I dont think it is actually worth it.

Where you are would have an influence on whether you need permits and that is why it this site provides for you to put your location to avoid having to ask the question "where are you from" every time before being able to give advice.
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Re: Panther Chameleons - importing

Postby bobthedinosaur » Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:21 pm

western cape! i amended my profile as well.
will do the search
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Re: Panther Chameleons - importing

Postby bobthedinosaur » Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:48 pm

ok, so I contacted the local nature conservation people and they seemed quite helpful and had an unusual aire of effectiveness, unusual for a government institution...
they reckon there'd be now problem in getting permits for a Panther Chameleon as long as they're captive bred, getting the import permit also doesn't seem like much of an issue, now I just need to contact a few reputable dealers in the US/UK, I've already contacted www.flchams.com, Amazing Blue Reptiles and www.chameleonsonly.com, with no reply from any of them so far, in my previous experiences with importing other stuff from the US I know they're quite dodge about dealing with anyone in Africa, apparently fraud is a well-known problem when dealing with africans....

any advice on/names of reputable and trustworthy dealers in the US/UK would be much appreciated!
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Re: Panther Chameleons - importing

Postby Klippies » Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:19 pm

Panorama pet shop got 4 panther chameleons. Two are sold and they going for R3k each
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Re: Panther Chameleons - importing

Postby bobthedinosaur » Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:37 pm

Klippies wrote:Panorama pet shop got 4 panther chameleons. Two are sold and they going for R3k each

YUP I know about those two, saw them the other day, they're very plain looking ambanja's, all green, not what i'm looking for
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Re: Panther Chameleons - importing

Postby Chameleons » Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:16 pm

I am successfully breeding Ambanja panthers and have both youngsters and older males available. So far as I know these are the only captive bred panthers in South Africa.

The colours are quite variable; some are very blue, others the standard Ambanja green and still others have amazing orange and red throughout, inlcuding down their tail. The male's head is our 'logo' so you can see how rich the colours are. I have attached a couple of photos of some we sold a while ago - you can see how varied the colours are. This is fairly standard with panthers unless you go for very expensive US ones that are the result of selective breeding programs.

PM me if you want more photos or information;
or you could have a look at our new web site http://www.sa-chameleons.com It is aimed at providing information for people wanting to keep exotic chameleons in South Africa.
Young male red.jpg
young male blue.jpg
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Re: Panther Chameleons - importing

Postby Bjorn » Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:00 am

There is no chance you will be allowed to import them from the USA without a quarantine station and vet permits from our Department of Agriculture. The CITES permits also take 3-6 months so you could be looking at 7 months till you get them. They will also not export one or two as it's not worth while. The shipping alone could be $500-$700. Trust me I know I do it full time. I think your best bet would be Chameleons the member or Panorama. I might be able to help out in a month or two if you don't come right.

Good luck on your search!
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Re: Panther Chameleons - importing

Postby bobthedinosaur » Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:15 am

Bjorn wrote:There is no chance you will be allowed to import them from the USA without a quarantine station and vet permits from our Department of Agriculture. The CITES permits also take 3-6 months so you could be looking at 7 months till you get them. They will also not export one or two as it's not worth while. The shipping alone could be $500-$700. Trust me I know I do it full time. I think your best bet would be Chameleons the member or Panorama. I might be able to help out in a month or two if you don't come right.

Good luck on your search!


yup, i don't know about the CITES permit, as it seems the local governmentals I spoke to didn't see any problems in my application and said it would go quickly.
As for quarantine, I've made contact with two companies that do animal importing and they have quarantine facilities available.
So now its just down to finding someone in the US who'll sell to me....
All in all it's going to be an expensive exercise, i'm sure

but i'll let you know if i don't come right!
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Re: Panther Chameleons - importing

Postby Bjorn » Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:20 am

When buying and selling Panther chameleons within South Africa you don't need CITES permits. You do however need them when trading internationally. The USA takes ages to get the permits but Cape Nature are very quick.

All boas and pythons are CITES II in international trade besides the CITES I listed species. Most Chameleons are also CITES II for example Veilds.

see http://www.cites.org/eng/app/appendices.shtml
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Re: Panther Chameleons - importing

Postby Bushviper » Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:31 am

Quarantine for reptiles is not the same as quarantine for any other animals so be aware that you do not get yourself caught out without a place to put them.

If you are planning on bringing in less than 50 you are wasting your time. The costs of the permits (X5 permits), freight (on an airline that accepts animals as not all of them do) transit fees and transit documents (if flying via Europe) Shipping agent (here and there) quarantine costs and the food bill while in quarantine has to be divided by the number of animals involved so the more you bring in the less the cost is per animal. Fixed costs on a shipment is usually about R20 000-00 and up if there are no hiccups and the freight is light. That excludes the cost of the animals.
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Panther Chameleons

Postby bradmite » Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:27 am

I can get x2 breeding pair 1 year young Panther Chameleons in Jo'burg.
email me on bradmite@hotmail.com for further information!
Sweet!
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Re: Panther Chameleons - importing

Postby Chameleons » Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:09 pm

As Bjorn and Bushviper both said, the costs of importing and the hassles are not for the faint hearted. Unless you have the patience of Job and money to burn, you have basically 3 options:
* buy locally bred
* buy from someone who is experienced at importing (like Bjorn)
* or buy wild caught smuggled chameleons.

If you go with option 3 you are making a huge and costly mistake. I occasionally get calls from people who have gone that route and are now paying the price in sick animals and heavy bills - as well as the risk to their other animals.

FYI some of the places mentioned that sell panthers are doing so with captive bred, so check carefully but they are available. But avoid 'ranch bred' or similar - that's often simply wild caught. Ask for proof if captive bred - photos or even simple information about incubation.

The issue of colour is an interesting one as most panthers don't show their true colours until they are a year old, so if you don't have access to the parents or siblings you may be in for a surprise - could be good or bad. I have attached some more photos to show how variable one type can be (the bottom one is the father - the other two and the ones from yesterday are his offspring). These are from a single captive bred source and literature seem to indicate that unless you are paying a lot of money from a specialised breeder who is working on specific colour morphs you can get variety. One guy I communicate with in the States gets some fantastic colours from fairly normal morphs - but they go for R10,000 up! So with imported there is a risk the colours may not be what you hoped - while with smuggled chameleons the odds are heavily stacked against you. While the males may be easy to identify, the females are not and in the States there have been huge problems of mixed pairs arriving, giving rise to all sorts of confusion.

So don't be fooled by the amazing pictures on the web or in magazines. Not all Nosy Be panthers are blue and not all Ambanja are green. But - all panthers are great!
David
http://www.sa-chameleons.com

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Re: Panther Chameleons - importing

Postby Pseudogekko » Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:37 pm

To be honest, getting a chameleon transported from the UK to SA would probably make the animal incredibly stressed out. Shipping is usually done in bulk to cover shipping fees and admin fees (also vet checks at the airport)...therefore you'd have to spend a whole lot of money to actually be able to do it.

For example, to get a shipment from a US breeder to the UK, you have to place a minimum order of $2500 (standard). I'm guessing that would be a lot of money in your currency if you converted it. From the US to SA, I wouldn't be surprised if it was even more expensive.

Best thing about buying local is that you can check out the quality of the Cham, the last thing you'd want is to import an unhealthy one.
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Re: Panther Chameleons - importing

Postby petboy » Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:53 pm

hi bob.
pm me - can get u an adult pair of ambanjas
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